Counter steering

MattFazakarley

Aprilia RS 125
Dec 8, 2012
318
67
28
32
Cheshire
I ride a
Aprilia RS 125
You do it all the time of you're aware or not while riding. Be it on a turn swerving out of the way etc every time you ride you use counter steering. Again people will probably chime in and correct me a bit and give a better explanation as described in previous posts as well
Its perfectly fine the way you described it :) Thank you WhiteNinja :)
 

Lurch

Administrator
May 5, 2014
5,527
2,067
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Yorkshire
I ride a
2016 Street Triple R and a 1999 Honda NT650V Deauville
You say you don't lean far enough? You lean just the right amount, everytime, otherwise you'd fall off to the outside of the turn :)

What you mean is you don't lean as far as some others do. Lean can be varied in a turn, what you're doing is maintaining the centre of gravity at an angle in a turn. My bike leans more than others because I keep my body upright. When race bikers lean off the bike it's actually to keep the bike more upright so they don't ground the pegs, but the centre of gravity remains the same whether you lean your body with or against the bike, and the bike will lean less or more respectively.

And trust me, at around a jogging pace, you're likely to be counter steering. If you do slow manoeuvres like the slalom on the CBT or the figure 8, you DO steer normally because you are doing it at a walking pace, and you notice that the bars are moving more, but the bike is less stable as you don't have much gyroscopic forces helping stabilise the bike. In a counter steer you do it to upset the gyroscopic forces, it's a kind a gyroscopic precession (yawn) that you don't need to know about really, but knowing push left to go left, and to go left some more, you push some more is important. Your body will compensate subconsciously usually. When you're up and running, go find an empty car park and ride at 10mph or thereabouts and gently push the bars one way or another. When you have a turn started and space to continue the turn, push again (gently) on the bar in the direction of the turn and see what happens.

So if you can push left to go left, next (gently) try pulling right to go left, it will reinforce the theory.
 
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MattFazakarley

Aprilia RS 125
Dec 8, 2012
318
67
28
32
Cheshire
I ride a
Aprilia RS 125
You say you don't lean far enough? You lean just the right amount, everytime, otherwise you'd fall off to the outside of the turn :)

What you mean is you don't lean as far as some others do. Lean can be varied in a turn, what you're doing is maintaining the centre of gravity at an angle in a turn. My bike leans more than others because I keep my body upright. When race bikers lean off the bike it's actually to keep the bike more upright so they don't ground the pegs, but the centre of gravity remains the same whether you lean your body with or against the bike, and the bike will lean less or more respectively.

And trust me, at around a jogging pace, you're likely to be counter steering. If you do slow manoeuvres like the slalom on the CBT or the figure 8, you DO steer normally because you are doing it at a walking pace, and you notice that the bars are moving more, but the bike is less stable as you don't have much gyroscopic forces helping stabilise the bike. In a counter steer you do it to upset the gyroscopic forces, it's a kind a gyroscopic precession (yawn) that you don't need to know about really, but knowing push left to go left, and to go left some more, you push some more is important. Your body will compensate subconsciously usually. When you're up and running, go find an empty car park and ride at 10mph or thereabouts and gently push the bars one way or another. When you have a turn started and space to continue the turn, push again (gently) on the bar in the direction of the turn and see what happens.

So if you can push left to go left, next (gently) try pulling right to go left, it will reinforce the theory.
Im super baffled on the physics of it but i think ima go find a car park when my bike is able to go faster than i push it :p
 

kuhlka

Wannabie Member
Jul 7, 2014
288
78
28
SoCal OC
youtube.com
I ride a
2011 Ducati Diavel Carbon Red, 2007 Ducati 1098
You do it all the time of you're aware or not while riding. Be it on a turn swerving out of the way etc every time you ride you use counter steering. Again people will probably chime in and correct me a bit and give a better explanation as described in previous posts as well

The only thing I'd add is you're always counter-steering through turns. The front wheel doesn't go back straight once you've initiated the turn, you just aren't putting as much pressure on the bars so you don't realize you're holding the bars with the wheel pointing 'counter' to the turn.

This is much more noticeable at slow speeds if you slowly and smoothly push on the bars without over-steering. Many people push hard with the initial flick into a corner and correct themselves afterward. This gives the sensation that they're no longer counter-steering when in reality they've merely reduced the amount of counter-steer so they can hold their line.

Try it in a huge empty mall parking lot and you'll see what I mean. If you very slowly push on the left, the bike tips left. If you straighten the bars it should go back upright. The wider your handlebars, the more you'll be moving. It's harder to notice with narrow clip-ons.

If I can get down to the Ortega corkscrew this weekend, I'll stick my actioncam on my bike's bellypan and get some footage.
 
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kuhlka

Wannabie Member
Jul 7, 2014
288
78
28
SoCal OC
youtube.com
I ride a
2011 Ducati Diavel Carbon Red, 2007 Ducati 1098
I did a short talk about counter-steering in my most recent vlog. Angeles Crest With Friends - Turned Around
 

myles

Wannabie Member
Apr 8, 2015
31
4
8
30
I ride a
kawasaki gpz 500
really good explination bike rider
 

kuhlka

Wannabie Member
Jul 7, 2014
288
78
28
SoCal OC
youtube.com
I ride a
2011 Ducati Diavel Carbon Red, 2007 Ducati 1098
Easy way to explain watch Twist of the Wrist II

You have to admit that video is really long. Hard for most people to absorb and take to practice in one sitting. Part of why I'm working on laying out a skills series with easily digestible chunks of real-world 1st person POV demonstrations.

On thing I just thought I'd mention is not all bikes track perfectly in a straight line on all surfaces. For example, my Diavel tends to drift right if I set cruise and take my hands off the bars. This is mostly due to the camber of right-side driving in the USA, but also due to the massive single-sided swingarm and rear end geometry. To counter this drift, I have to ever so slightly counter-steer to the left. It's not something you'd notice in everyday riding. This happens naturally as we ride on cambered surfaces that are angled to divert rain to ditches and sewers. If the camber leans to the right, we put more pressure on the left and vice versa.

Also, bikes with a flatter profile rear tire tend to be much harder to throw around, so you'll notice the counter-steering much more through the increased effort on the grips. Trying to steer a Triumph Rocket III with a CAR drag radial (drag strip setup) on the back makes it blatantly obvious.
 

Lurch

Administrator
May 5, 2014
5,527
2,067
113
Yorkshire
I ride a
2016 Street Triple R and a 1999 Honda NT650V Deauville
There's a short extract from TOTW about counter steering already linked in to this thread.
 
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