e-petition against 2013 bike law changes

[CurlyBlakey]

With respect AZZ3R, the rs and yzf are not your standard 125s, ask the vast majority of people and they will have had a cg, ybr, en or similar which are VERY different to the first two, for example the ybr has only 10bhp, which is really not enough to do much more than town riding, you often got passed by idiots in silly places.

I can see how people who maybe have not experienced 125s or slower 125s might consider this to be a good plan, but quite honestly, if someone said i was going to be stuck with the YBR for 2 years i probably would have stuck with it, but others? who haven't ridden a bike before? i can see them running for the hills!

 

[AZZ3R]

With respect AZZ3R, the rs and yzf are not your standard 125s, ask the vast majority of people and they will have had a cg, ybr, en or similar which are VERY different to the first two, for example the ybr has only 10bhp, which is really not enough to do much more than town riding, you often got passed by idiots in silly places.

I can see how people who maybe have not experienced 125s or slower 125s might consider this to be a good plan, but quite honestly, if someone said i was going to be stuck with the YBR for 2 years i probably would have stuck with it, but others? who haven't ridden a bike before? i can see them running for the hills!

True, but theres nothing stopping you from having a YBR then say wanting a little more power/ feeling output to get a RS or a YZF?

When I first got my 50 I got bored v.quickly due to 1hill I had to go up everyday from work, toped out about 13mph getting up this hill sometimes, I felt like I was going backwards it was that steep. Then I chose the RS which I loved, but I took my test on a CG due to the postion & the fact it just worked. Theres always options for bikes from slow - fast, upright - sports personal preferances really.

This also means that 125's will become more popular (less people riding) but 125's can now focus on this range.

I think you've got to think of the NCB side of it. People are turning down 600's because of insurance costs & having to get a 250. when you have 3 & getting on a 400 it will be around the same price as your first insurance but your on a bigger bike so it equals out. NCB side works for me & is a wining factor. You are disagreeing with this idea because you've had the chance to ride a 125 & experianced it. So your right to be against it but people never having ridden one will feel differently.

What I'd like to know is, How many Full Licences where earnt in 2011 & next year do the same (which the goverment will do) but I'd like them to share it with the majority of the biking world. along with accidents/claims. Yes their may be more deaths on bikes. But on a bike you can kill 1 - 2 people, in a car, you can kill 5 & whoever you hit so the figures they shouldn't be allowed to compare.

 

[Chessecake94]

People are just thinking 'Test,Test,Test' it's not, it's training. By the time you've hit 19 you've worked up 3y's NCB, by the time your ready for a full powered bike you have 5y's NCB < thus insurance being alot cheaper due to the amount of NCB earnt. I know I'd rather have more y'sNCB than just getting on a bigger bike and paying through the nose for it.
(unless someone else is an instructor).

By the time I'm 19 I'm going to have 3 years no claims anyway, i have no problem paying more for insurance now to have a bigger bike. 33bhp is the perfect amount to learn on, not really enough to spit yourself off easily, but more than enough to keep up with anything else at normal road speed.

How would you feel at 16 facing 8 years of huge expense to pass your test, why should we be any different to cars in this sense. Imagine the uproar if it took 8 years to pass your cars test.
No amount of training can stop you from riding fast, no amount of training will prevent a misjudgement every now and again. Bikers that have 30 years experience can still crash.

 

[Chessecake94]

As for those that say it will help the 400 market, why does it matter when it will severely damage the whole motorcycle market. Once you start to move in the direction of more and more restrictions, where does it end??

 

[Mikesmotorbike]

it'll allso damage the amount of riders. doesn't matter if you're 21 or 24, if you gas it too much it's still going to hurt.

 

[AZZ3R]

How would you feel at 16 facing 8 years of huge expense to pass your test.

I dissagree, You can have a full licenced bike at 21 with the new law. If your 16 you only have to wait untill your 19 to ride without L plates & can be on a 400.

19-21 a 400cc is more than enough & when you come off your restriction you are more likely to move up to 600 - 800cc because of the jump.

My next bike, the only difference will be that atm it's 70bhp & next bike will be 120-140. so I will be getting raped for insurance but I agree with it due to the jump eventually it will even out & some people will be glad they gained 3years NCB before getting on a 400.

Insurance is going up & up, will only come down when NCB is earnt.

 

[Bloke]

Re: Re: e-petition against 2013 bike law changes

to you two saying it's not a concern of yours (not ranting you're allowed your own opinion) it still seems a shame. To be honest, probably not a concern to me either as I'm doing my big bike license here in France. But still, we have to support future bikers.

It's not that it's not a concern of mine.

Azz3r puts it way better than I ever could.

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[CurlyBlakey]

How would you feel at 16 facing 8 years of huge expense to pass your test.

I dissagree, You can have a full licenced bike at 21 with the new law. If your 16 you only have to wait untill your 19 to ride without L plates & can be on a 400.

19-21 a 400cc is more than enough & when you come off your restriction you are more likely to move up to 600 - 800cc because of the jump.

My next bike, the only difference will be that atm it's 70bhp & next bike will be 120-140. so I will be getting raped for insurance but I agree with it due to the jump eventually it will even out & some people will be glad they gained 3years NCB before getting on a 400.

Insurance is going up & up, will only come down when NCB is earnt.

No claims bonus has saved me £70, that's it.

You seriously can't be suggesting we deter people from getting into biking because those who keep going will save a few quid on the insurance? that's really not the point here.

The point here is that many of us on here are products of the two test system which has trained us as sensible, and safe bikers, with relatively little bureacracy.

The new test will alienate people, and the best way to learn is to experience, no matter how long you spend on a 125, the jump to 47bhp will be even bigger and more dangerous than the jump to 33bhp, in my opinion.

 

[Mikesmotorbike]

Re: Re: e-petition against 2013 bike law changes

to you two saying it's not a concern of yours (not ranting you're allowed your own opinion) it still seems a shame. To be honest, probably not a concern to me either as I'm doing my big bike license here in France. But still, we have to support future bikers.

It's not that it's not a concern of mine.

Azz3r puts it way better than I ever could.

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yeah to be honest I can understand what he means. but it should be down to good judgement. it allways seems to be bikes. never cars. I've been on the roads since i was 14 (age in France for 50cc) so I might feel ready for a unrestricted bike at 21 (as is the law here) doing my big licenc soon will have me restricted till 21 anyway. it should seem daft that people wanting to get a bigger more powerfull bike will have to wait an extra 3 years.

 

[Bikermole]

both the second hand and new bike market will have to put prices up to stay afloat. Bikes are dear enough as they are!

Thats only if you go to a dealer where they usually lie through their a*s just for you to buy it, ohh yea we'll throw in 3months gearbox warranty don't worry. Yet your gearbox will/should last more than 5years+.

Evilbay is where you want to look, or all these other sites.

I wouldn't buy from a dealer unless it was brand spankin' new with 12months warranty, + buying a new bike devalues about £1k as soon as you've bought it so when you come to sell it you'd be lucky to get half back unless it was just left in the garage & rode very lightly.

There will be many new riders like myself who have a job, but can't wait/afford to save to buy privately, and cannot get a bank loan, so they go to dealers to get finance so they then have to pay a bit more, and anyway, most do come with a 3 month warranty, which is worth a lot in peace of mind to a money conscious teenager!

I was lucky and got a fantastic deal on a brand new yamaha, with 0% finance and a good p/x for my vclic moped, but 125's are ridiculously expensive anyway, with the yamaha r125 being the same price as a ninja 250 or a bit less than a new SV650 or gladius.

With 125's being expensive anyway, we are seeing more people going straight from a 50cc to a restricted 600, but this will be impossible under the new test, which will mean new riders paying a lot more to get a big bike, as they have to have a 50, then a 125, then a 47hp bike, then they can get as big a bike as they want. If they start riding at 16.

 

[Friz]

I'm getting really frustrated reading this thread.

The no claims argument is silly and insurance should have nothing to do with your licence. I doubt the govement even thought of this.

A lot of people don't have the money to keep buying a bike after 2 years, especially along with the extra money on more tests. Do we even know what you do for these tests? It'll probably just be a mod 2 every 2 years. Absolutely pointless.

This test change will kill young rider motorcycling in Britain. End of discussion. There's nothing that you can say to argue that without looking like an idiot. I'm sorry, but thats true.

125s are already very popular due to CBT. People who are looking at starting riding will see that they can do a cbt for 100 quid and ride a 125, or go for the full test for 500 quid and days of training to ride... a 125. Who is honestly going to do that?

If you get told you're going to have to pay a lot on your insurance for a 600 and you dont want to pay it then its simple. Dont get a 600. Or get a less sporty 600. It shouldnt be any reason to change the test completely, and its not for the goverment.

I'm trying not to pick on names here, but the reasons bought in to argue for this change are stupid and you really need to look at what you're writing cause its gibberish.

Bring someone who is an instructer into this thread. They're either going to be happy because theyre getting more money or upset cause no ones going to be taking any tests anymore.

 

[Bloke]

Re: Re: e-petition against 2013 bike law changes

People are just thinking 'Test,Test,Test' it's not, it's training. By the time you've hit 19 you've worked up 3y's NCB, by the time your ready for a full powered bike you have 5y's NCB < thus insurance being alot cheaper due to the amount of NCB earnt. I know I'd rather have more y'sNCB than just getting on a bigger bike and paying through the nose for it.
(unless someone else is an instructor).

By the time I'm 19 I'm going to have 3 years no claims anyway, i have no problem paying more for insurance now to have a bigger bike. 33bhp is the perfect amount to learn on, not really enough to spit yourself off easily, but more than enough to keep up with anything else at normal road speed.

How would you feel at 16 facing 8 years of huge expense to pass your test, why should we be any different to cars in this sense. Imagine the uproar if it took 8 years to pass your cars test.
No amount of training can stop you from riding fast, no amount of training will prevent a misjudgement every now and again. Bikers that have 30 years experience can still crash.

It's not 8 years to pass your test. It's 1.

1 year and you can ride without L plates on a 125.

It's a full light motorcycle licence.

2 more years and a test (which shouldn't require any more training) and you're on a 400cc which is more than enough for everything tbh.

You want more? Go do another test and get on anything you like.

A full power 125 runs around the 33bhp mark so if you want 33bhp aged 17 you can get it.

I believe it'll encourage biking in the lower capacity machines, graduated testing is actually a good idea imo, reinforces safe riding during your developing years.

It could even drive insurance prices down as an outcome providing the crash statistics follow the trend the gov believe it will.

You're bang on complaining about cars, it's not fair they should introduce graduated licencing like in finland, no driving at night... No passengers etc...



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[Bikermole]

I'm getting really frustrated reading this thread.

The no claims argument is silly and insurance should have nothing to do with your licence. I doubt the govement even thought of this.

A lot of people don't have the money to keep buying a bike after 2 years, especially along with the extra money on more tests. Do we even know what you do for these tests? It'll probably just be a mod 2 every 2 years. Absolutely pointless.

This test change will kill young rider motorcycling in Britain. End of discussion. There's nothing that you can say to argue that without looking like an idiot. I'm sorry, but thats true.

125s are already very popular due to CBT. People who are looking at starting riding will see that they can do a cbt for 100 quid and ride a 125, or go for the full test for 500 quid and days of training to ride... a 125. Who is honestly going to do that?

If you get told you're going to have to pay a lot on your insurance for a 600 and you dont want to pay it then its simple. Dont get a 600. Or get a less sporty 600. It shouldnt be any reason to change the test completely, and its not for the goverment.

I'm trying not to pick on names here, but the reasons bought in to argue for this change are stupid and you really need to look at what you're writing cause its gibberish.

Bring someone who is an instructer into this thread. They're either going to be happy because theyre getting more money or upset cause no ones going to be taking any tests anymore.

Sorry sir!

 

[POPE5HAT]

This thread is beginning to resemble Poking a dead Dog with a Stick.

 

[AZZ3R]

There will be many new riders like myself who have a job, but can't wait/afford to save to buy privately, and cannot get a bank loan, so they go to dealers to get finance so they then have to pay a bit more, and anyway, most do come with a 3 month warranty, which is worth a lot in peace of mind to a money conscious teenager!

You can't base the fact it will hurt the motorcycle industry because people can't afford to buy it outright.

Sorry but if you can afford to pay £5k on a bike over 3years then you can afford £5k straight away, Just save.

The majority of people on this forum & around the world will buy a bike privately.

God forbid, what if you lost your job tomorrow? who will be paying for your bike? But if you save for the bike & buy it outright the bike owes you money rather than the otherway around.

If you where to crash your financed bike & couldn't afford fully comp your paying for a bike & not even riding it + having to buy parts to fix it back to normal.

Financing a bike is only good when you know you either have a job for life (which there isn't many now'a days) or you have enough money saved for a good 6months so in the mean time you can look for a job. I've got my phone on a 24month contract @£40 a month I've got enough saved so if I'm to lose my job I don't have to worry it's just going to come out each month in the mean time I have 2years to look for a new job.

Financing a bike, you would have to think long & hard before signing that dotted line.

 

[Bloke]

Just because it's your opinion, doesn't make it true @ friz.

If anything stating ones opinions as facts just makes you look like an idiot.

The test itself is changing to become a combined test last I heard, moving the off road manouvers into manouvers done on the road.

Instructors are miffed as they'll need to buy more machines for the middle licence.

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[CurlyBlakey]

There will be many new riders like myself who have a job, but can't wait/afford to save to buy privately, and cannot get a bank loan, so they go to dealers to get finance so they then have to pay a bit more, and anyway, most do come with a 3 month warranty, which is worth a lot in peace of mind to a money conscious teenager!

You can't base the fact it will hurt the motorcycle industry because people can't afford to buy it outright.

Sorry but if you can afford to pay £5k on a bike over 3years then you can afford £5k straight away, Just save.

The majority of people on this forum & around the world will buy a bike privately.

God forbid, what if you lost your job tomorrow? who will be paying for your bike? But if you save for the bike & buy it outright the bike owes you money rather than the otherway around.

If you where to crash your financed bike & couldn't afford fully comp your paying for a bike & not even riding it + having to buy parts to fix it back to normal.

Financing a bike is only good when you know you either have a job for life (which there isn't many now'a days) or you have enough money saved for a good 6months so in the mean time you can look for a job. I've got my phone on a 24month contract @£40 a month I've got enough saved so if I'm to lose my job I don't have to worry it's just going to come out each month in the mean time I have 2years to look for a new job.

Financing a bike, you would have to think long & hard before signing that dotted line.

It seems you have been VERY lucky as far as finances are concerned.

I'm not afraid to say i earn £3/4k a year, with various other expenses i would NEVER have been able to get the money together without a kind of parent based finance, which is now all paid off.

The majority of teenagers can't be bothered to save £5k (which would take me 2/3 years in reality)

 

[AZZ3R]

Reasons why NCB was brought into the topic is the fact that might encourage newer riders to think in the long term, and accepct the fact the test will benefit them, if you think it doesn't/won't thats your opinion (which your entitled to have) & I stand by my opinion about the NCB.

by the time someone is able to sit on your bike they have 5years NCB so it will be alot cheaper, when you compare it to getting on a 600 at 17.

 

[CurlyBlakey]

Reasons why NCB was brought into the topic is the fact that might encourage newer riders to think in the long term, and accepct the fact the test will benefit them, if you think it doesn't/won't thats your opinion (which your entitled to have) & I stand by my opinion about the NCB.

by the time someone is able to sit on your bike they have 5years NCB so it will be alot cheaper, when you compare it to getting on a 600 at 17.

No, it wasnt. Quite simply no.

It was bought in to reward careful drivers/riders and encourage everyone to drive safely.

 

[AZZ3R]

The majority of teenagers can't be bothered to save £5k (which would take me 2/3 years in reality)

Then you don't get a brand new bike simple as, you can pick up a mint 125 for £2k or you can think 'My 125 is just a stepping bike into my biking career. So I don't need to spend much'

I bought my RS for £1000 I dropped it, I crahsed it I fixed it, I spent £100's on it but it was just a stepping bike so I didn't need to spend that much money.

No on needs a brand new bike, if you 'Need' one your fussy, if you want one it's a different story. But at the end of the day you don't need to finance a bike to ride it, when financing it you have to think in the long run not just the fact you can afford it at the present time?