Do you think this is a Lemon?

[IREV808]

This video is for a friend's 2014 CBR600RR

TL;DW: hot start issues start at 0:46. Dealership think it's normal. What do you guys think?

He went to the CBR forums but he didn't really get much feedback so it probably isn't a common issue. All of us think he got a lemon but the dealership doesn't want to acknowledge that. Hasn't had his bike for weeks now.

 

[Trinith]

A bike having one problem doesn't make it a lemon, unfortunately. I would call a few shops that aren't dealerships and see what they say.

 

[IREV808]

A bike having one problem doesn't make it a lemon, unfortunately. I would call a few shops that aren't dealerships and see what they say.

He took the bike back more than 3 times already and they really couldn't fix the issue and is still at the dealership. Hawaii doesn't really cover motorcycles in the Lemon Law (I think, I read somewhere otherwise stating it does) but it does fall into federal Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. He might have to sue actually since he has everything documented. Really shitty situation.

 

[Trinith]

I'd imagine they quit trying a while ago, and just tell him they're looking into it while they do nothing. Happened to me once when I had a short that was blowing fuses. Local dealer couldn't figure it out and dismantled the bike trying. Ended up picking it up in pieces and taking it somewhere else after a month. The guy finally told me they back-burnered it because they had other things to work on. I should have taken them to court, but hindsight is 20-20 right? The 2nd shop had a hard time as well, but eventually found it after a few weeks and only charged me $50. Moral of the story? _always_ get a second opinion if the first is "We don't know." I would tell him to get that bike out of their shop, refuse to pay any fees for it, and sue them if they force the issue, then go somewhere else. If one or two other places (who are reputable, mind you) can't figure it out, then I'd say call the seller and offer them the options regarding the warranty act. They like to be big and bad, until you offer to let a judge figure it out.

 

[sweatiingbullets]

What Trinith said...

 

[CBRHoonigan]

for a 2014 bike i would be going fucking mental and getting them to fix and or replace it.
but their is soem things he could look at himself, Replace the spark plugs for iridium spark plugs replace the ht leads with something with a better core, and make sure he puts higher ocatane fuel in i t

 

[Shirou]

for a 2014 bike i would be going fucking mental and getting them to fix and or replace it.
but their is soem things he could look at himself, Replace the spark plugs for iridium spark plugs replace the ht leads with something with a better core, and make sure he puts higher ocatane fuel in i t

But replacing spark plugs will probably void the warranty and you're not supposed to try and fix a brand new product. It's a Honda, it shouldn't require any servicing until 1500~3000 miles past the first one.

 

[IREV808]

I'd imagine they quit trying a while ago, and just tell him they're looking into it while they do nothing.

I think that was the case. He had to actually go to the dealership and ask the status of his bike. Every time they tried to make up some excuse or say they "called" Honda's main office or whatever. I went with him one time and it was just depressing to hear that they "just" did something after the bike was there for 1.5 weeks, WTF were they doing the whole time you know?

I mean he could of taken it somewhere else but I think that would void the warranty.

 

[Shirou]

If there is no other official Honda dealership there you're stuck with them because of the terms of the warranty. Some are more picky than others. Kinda related, I voided the warranty of my white brand, 3 week old computer by replacing the hard drive with a bigger one. Other brands will let you do something like that and even give you instructions. I called the service centre to get the setup discs and they voided the warranty because I opened the computer.
Maybe he can try calling Honda directly or sending them an e-mail about it, let them know that their dealer is not servicing the motorcycle properly.
Some brands take this dealer-customer ping-pong very seriously because it can hurt their business and affect the brand image.

 

[IREV808]

If there is no other official Honda dealership there you're stuck with them because of the terms of the warranty. Some are more picky than others. Kinda related, I voided the warranty of my white brand, 3 week old computer by replacing the hard drive with a bigger one. Other brands will let you do something like that and even give you instructions. I called the service centre to get the setup discs and they voided the warranty because I opened the computer.
Maybe he can try calling Honda directly or sending them an e-mail about it, let them know that their dealer is not servicing the motorcycle properly.
Some brands take this dealer-customer ping-pong very seriously because it can hurt their business and affect the brand image.

Yea, I think the dealership he bought his CBR is the only authorized dealer on the island. He has called Honda directly and they basically said go back to the dealership. It was only after the third time they attempted to get a I guess "top" Honda tech to look at the issue. He got his bike back today but I am not sure if it is still giving him issues. I'll ask him later on.

 

[renegadebiker24]

This video is for a friend's 2014 CBR600RR

TL;DW: hot start issues start at 0:46. Dealership think it's normal. What do you guys think?

He went to the CBR forums but he didn't really get much feedback so it probably isn't a common issue. All of us think he got a lemon but the dealership doesn't want to acknowledge that. Hasn't had his bike for weeks now.

It seems that there is an issue with the starter. I think maybe he should take it to another Honda dealer if there is one in Hawaii, or got to another shop like what Trinith said, imho. Funny thing at least for me, is take for instance my new ride, even though I have not had an issue with the starter yet, the dealership at the time that sold me the bike, did not know how to open the saddlebags, until they figured it out on their own. (The salesman should have read the owner's manual. LOL! Also when it comes to replacing a windshield, it was their first time, if I had them do it, and it would have probably cost me a lot on labor so they could have figured it out before downloading the instructions.

As far as it being a lemon, it sounds like to me it might be. I know this may be way off topic when it comes to cars versus motorcycles in so far as lemons, but I am going thru that now with a p.o.s. car that CAR Mart in Springdale that finanaced for $9,000 for a 2001 Oldsmobile Alero, and it had problems with the starter and the ABS as well. The ABS problem was a wheel bearing sensor that I pretty much had to show them how to fix it from a video on youtube, and as far as the starter is concerned, I had that damned car in the shop about 5 different times, all for the same issue until they supposedly fixed it, and it was the ignition, and I got so sick of it, I took it back to the dealer, and said, "Here, you can have your car back, I am through with it!." I was tired of the constant times it was in the shop. I also had something similar with a P.o.s. 1998 Suzuki LS650 Savage motorcycle as you can see from this video at:

 

[Arctic Pride]

That is in no way normal especially for a bike of that age...

Depending on how the ECU manages fuel injection a couple things come to mind...

First is the coolant temp sensor, if the ECU uses this to change fueling it might be dumping too much fuel in or not enough

Could also be a stuck injector but that would likely cause other issues including crappy cold starts

And of course....valves, I don't think I caught how many mi were on the bike?

 

[CBRHoonigan]

But replacing spark plugs will probably void the warranty and you're not supposed to try and fix a brand new product. It's a Honda, it shouldn't require any servicing until 1500~3000 miles past the first one.

Honda themselfs dont count perishable items a warranty void, my cbr will be going in fully modified again like the first one and they dont say anything about that, and if its been to the honda dealership already what else can he do besides try that?

 

[IREV808]

I just talked to him. He got his bike back last week and it is still having the same issue with the hot starts. Not sure what he can do at this point other than the ugly process of trying to claim it is a lemon and getting a new bike or his money back.

 

[hiside808]

Hey guys, I'm the owner of that bike in the video. So basically, I got it back a couple of days ago after they told me that the bike throws no fault codes and everything checks out. Apparently, the service manager for Honda motorcycle repairs said that the issue I'm having isn't actually an issue, but actually a "characteristic" of all CBR's. At temperatures above 209 the bike will need "a few extra turns" and it "will start up every time", and if not "after waiting a minute it will start." They have the same model year CBR in black sitting on the show room floor which they used for comparison and that bike did the exact same thing. So maybe it is a characteristic, or just 2 bikes from the same shipment that came out weird.

it's definitely an electrical issue, I'm guessing regulator rectifier or something with a module that's too close to a component that gets really hot. I'm not a mechanic, but at this point I'm not so sure anyone at that dealership is either.

 

[Arctic Pride]

gotta go through honda bust some heads, a bike that can't hot start? what a joke

 

[CBRHoonigan]

Try run it on higher octane fuel my mates 929 blade did that, and he used super unleaded fuel and it worked so much better.

 

[Trinith]

it's definitely an electrical issue, I'm guessing regulator rectifier or something with a module that's too close to a component that gets really hot. I'm not a mechanic, but at this point I'm not so sure anyone at that dealership is either.

I'm a VFR owner, I've got a lot of experience with dead r/rs. That's not going to be an issue. They don't fail intermittently, there's no moving parts. Once they fail they're done. The only thing that happens then (assuming there's no fire involved..) is that the battery doesn't get charged and after a while the whole bike just dies. I don't really see how the r/r could cause it to turn over but not start. If that was the faulty part then it would turn over slowly, sounding like a dead battery, and never start again till you replaced/recharged the battery. Should you still think that's the cause, they're very easy to check if you have a volt meter. Just search youtube/google for information on r/r testing and you'll find everything you need to do it. Takes about 5-10 minutes to test them.

 

[ariderslife]

Id call Honda Directly, tell them the issue and the bike shops can't diagnose it. They might take the bike to Honda Cert centre and investigate.

 

[CBRHoonigan]

ID say try and return it and say the bike isnt fit for purpose