Do you think this is a Lemon?

[thunderous71]

Try run it on higher octane fuel my mates 929 blade did that, and he used super unleaded fuel and it worked so much better.

This is the first thing I though also... what fuel are you using?

 

[CBRHoonigan]

All i know that in america they dont run as high a octane as england for example and japan have a crazy high octane at their regular pumps, so maybe the shit fuel is causing it issues to turn on? then you could go down the line of the ht leads and better spark plugs

 

[Arctic Pride]

i would think crap gas would make it run poorly overall

i still think this is sensor or ecu related

 

[Trinith]

All i know that in america they dont run as high a octane as england for example and japan have a crazy high octane at their regular pumps, so maybe the shit fuel is causing it issues to turn on? then you could go down the line of the ht leads and better spark plugs

The US and England use different measurements for the octane ratings, and thus have different scales. Our gas isn't very different from yours. Also, if it was a fuel issue it would happen to a lot of different bikes, rather than just CBRs. Every Honda bike comes from the same group of people, and they've been selling them stateside for decades. They're not going to get it that wrong on just one line of product. Hell, they wouldn't get it that wrong at all imo.

Truth is some engines don't like starting when they're hot. It could be a sensor, the ECU, the A/F ratio, the spark advance..the list is a mile long. This is simply one illustration of the reason why gearheads are often heard talking about the 'personality' of a given motor design. The 781cc V4 in my bike is well known for being a fickle bitch, especially at low-throttle, low-rpm situations. It can sort of be smoothed out with a power commander, but any 6th gen VFR owner will tell you that they're a pain in the ass to ride slowly. I think that while there is clearly something wrong, Honda isn't going to do anything about it. Maybe they don't know the exact cause, maybe the fix would cost them a fortune, who knows. To sit here and guess is pretty pointless though. It's starting to seem like the only way to make the problem really go away is to force the company to take the defective product back and give up a refund, then go shopping elsewhere. That, or just live with it, like I do.

 

[Arctic Pride]

While I do agree with certain bikes being finicky I don't think a 2014 HONDA should have an issue like this. I'm with you on getting money back and going another route.

 

[Trinith]

You're correct, unfortunately 'should' and 'does' are very different. A 2010 bike shouldn't be so twitchy at low speeds either, but on all 6th gen VFRs the throttle acts more like an on/off switch at times, and the motor loads up and bogs down at other times. They certainly shouldn't do that, given the tech, but they do. I have to wonder if it doesn't have something to do with emissions regulations messing with the air/fuel mix abilities of the ECU. It may simply be running a little too lean to start well when it's hot. Who knows.

 

[CBRHoonigan]

maybe see what a consumer lawyer would say about getting your money back. i know in england things bought on a credit card is insured and can make it easier to return products not fit for use

 

[hiside808]

sorry, long time no update!

the bike recommends putting 91 octane and most if not all gas stations in Hawaii run with 92 octane, so I default to that. the dealership blamed my gas at first and said it was murky, so they swapped it out for their own gas and it still hard started.

I've sent honda a lemon law letter since I meet all of the qualifications. I'm also prepared to send a letter out to someone more important, since that seems to be the only way to get things moving. very sad that it's come to this point. I don't believe the entire cbr line is at fault here. if it was, I'm sure anyone who has spent any amount of time in traffic would have encountered this by now and spoken up.

 

[janx101]

just seeing as no one else has done it....

no... thats a bike!!

this is a lemon!

 

[CBRHoonigan]

I hope you get it sorted out very soon its not nice spending that sort of money and then for it not to be working properly, good luck mate

 

[janx101]

Thinking seriously though..... Hot engine ... Starting problems... And from the sound of it in the vid the fuel flow is not there? .. But on a few of the second try moments she fires up....

Fuel lines routed real close to engine heat? ... Wrap/insulate in something tricksy and shielding .. Or put a simple heat shield plate in if possible...... Fuel pump priming the system properly? ... Could be vaporising in there somewhere? .... Fuel pump error or mis-start when key is first turned? .... Tank breather clear?

Because of the fan sounds in the vid .. Can't hear fuel pump really ... But is it buzzing and clicking to a stop normally when pressure is up? ... A lot of them will pressure up and stop, then start pumping again once engine is running.....

 

[Arctic Pride]

I was actually wondering if the dealer had disabled the fan (pulled the fuse or relay) to see if it still happened. With bikes becoming as electrically complex as cars these days diagnosing problems like this can get pretty difficult if the ECU can't report a problem (check engine light e/t/c)

Please keep us updated on how it works out

 

[hiside808]

Thinking seriously though..... Hot engine ... Starting problems... And from the sound of it in the vid the fuel flow is not there? .. But on a few of the second try moments she fires up....

Fuel lines routed real close to engine heat? ... Wrap/insulate in something tricksy and shielding .. Or put a simple heat shield plate in if possible...... Fuel pump priming the system properly? ... Could be vaporising in there somewhere? .... Fuel pump error or mis-start when key is first turned? .... Tank breather clear?

Because of the fan sounds in the vid .. Can't hear fuel pump really ... But is it buzzing and clicking to a stop normally when pressure is up? ... A lot of them will pressure up and stop, then start pumping again once engine is running.....

the second time I brought it in, they rerouted my fuel hoses because they were "kinked."

I've noticed that the fuel pump sounds a bit different when I do get it to hard start. I can pretty much pinpoint when it's going to hard start based off the sound of the fuel pump alone, but once again, it's never consistent. a heat shield in the right place would probably alleviate this altogether. cold and warm, she's all good.

I'll try to see if I can get a video up

 

[janx101]

If the fuel pump is sounding different when it's going to hard start ... I'd be looking again at the lines possibly... You do have a reasonable amount of fuel in the tank when it plays up also?? .... Or the dealership can damn well pull the pump and either refurb it or replace it.... ?

I'm thinking the different sound is something causing the fuel flow to interrupt ...

Bad guts to the pump (but only periodically?) which may cause cavitation and thus bubbles in the line , which THEN collect together and give you a airlock in there somewhere? ..

The re-route of lines has still produced a kink or partial restriction ? ... Which might cause the pump to think it's pressured up but on the other end of line is a mere 'pfft' of pressure? Or they have a pinhole in them?

The fuel pump itself may be ok but not mounted correctly in the tank or something? (It is inside the tank yeah?) ... So if the pump were loose somehow and bobbing around in the fuel ... It could suck a little air?

I've seen a lot of bikes be a little grumpy after a hot shutdown/restart situ .... But it's nearly always a fuel/ing issue! ... Flow/vaporising from heat/flooding sometimes/.... Not saying it can't be anything else ... But that failed start followed by a good start issue..... Fuel somehow!