[Discussion] Is a Motorcycle defined/referred to by their body or their engine?

[Reize]

When we look at a CB400SF with a CB400SF engine. It is a CB400SF. Swap the gas tank, all the lights, wheels, suspension, brakes, exhaust and cosmetics. And we all would still agree, that is a CB400SF.

But if you somehow took a stock motorcycle e.g CB400SF, and managed to fit an engine from a totally different motorcycle e.g CBR150R, would it be a CB400SF with a CBR150R engine, or a CBR150R with a CB400SF body?

I may be pedantic, cause maybe I'm Asian and I just need structure to things. But the question bugs me because motorcycles don't really have a true chassis like cars do. Cars with an engine swap are always still referred to by their chassis, then annotated with what engine swap is in it.

Why do some boutique custom workshops that make custom choppers using a Harley engine and a custom frame, still refer to them by the original Harley model name? While extremely small motorcycle manufacturers like Magpul uses a Buell 1125 engine, but gives the finished bike it's own name (Ronin 47)?

 

[Javiyellow]

Well "a CB400SF with a CBR150R engine, or a CBR150R with a CB400SF body" is kind of like saying Florida is a state within the United States or the United States is a country that includes the state of Florida. It's the same thing it just depends on preference. But if your need for order is too much you could just count up all the parts and the space they take up on the bike and whichever "Bike Title" is associated with the higher percentage of parts and space they take up then you can use that as the main name of the bike but good luck with that lol

 

[Reize]

I think my difficulty is that unlike cars or nation states where there is a clear part that has more significant importance, like the chassis of a car, and the entire political geography of the United States, compared to the car's engine, or a state in the US.

For motorcycles, both the frame and the engine kind of share equal significance? A car's chassis carries the engine, the engine is just a component. But on motorcycles, the frame is built around the engine, the engine is also a stress member at certain points sharing the load with the frame.

Haha, shower thoughts are adding too much complexity to my life.

 

[FryskRider]

Interesting because i never thought of it that way. I think it depends on the motorcycle.

A hayabusa with a different engine will still be a hayabusa.

However a BMW GS without their iconical boxer engine is no GS at all.

 

[HippoDrone]

In the good old days of Spondon and Harris framed streetfighters, I recall they retained both names, so would be a Spondon GSXR or Harris GSXR. So the company would be the frame and the model would be the engine. I guess it all depends which is the stronger icon when naming them. Most custom bikes are built by the owner and start off as a Harley for example and have a custom frame built for the engine. A company that manufactures new bikes with other manufacturers engines will use their own name rather than that of the engine.
Aprilia used to use the Suzuki RGV 250 engines in their RS250, Lotus cars have used engines from various manufacturers over the years. Toyota and Subaru recently tag teamed a car, the GT86/BRZ (which was a bloody awesome car, loved mine), so I think there is a line of distinction between a shed built (even if a business) bike and a manufactured bike (or car etc)

 

[R-Rated]

Here in the states, VIN rules. So let's use the Harley example. Joe crashes his Harley and the frame is bent. Insurance totals the bike and Joe buys it back from insurance.

Joe buys an aftermarket frame. It comes with a MSO. It has a number too. Joe then puts everything together and has to fill out the paperwork for a new title. At that point someone has to visually confirm all the numbers and file the paperwork. At any point in the process Joe or the Government employee can call it something new but not exactly the same as another manufactured model.

So if Joe crashed a Softail Deluxe, it cannot be called another Softail Deluxe as that is Harley's.

HOWEVER, if Joe either reuses the steering stem of the original frame that has the VIN and puts that in place on the new frame, he now can call it a Softail Deluxe.

Or

Joe can order a new factory frame and HD will take his old steering stem and stamp the new frame with the VIN. I believe they may make a mark to show it a new frame.

Then Joe has a rebuilt Softail Deluxe.

Customizing bikes in the states can get tricky. Back about 15 years ago, EPA and CARB came out with rules about changing anything that changes the final drive ratio including rear tire size.

Basically, Joe should not wreck his bike...

 

[Undead MV]

I think it can be named taking both options, "This is a CB400 with motor of a CB150" or "This is a CB150 motor put in a CB400"

 

[Javiyellow]

I think it can be named taking both options, "This is a CB400 with motor of a CB150" or "This is a CB150 motor put in a CB400"

That won't settle his OCD on naming though lol

 

[Reize]

That won't settle his OCD on naming though lol

Hahaha yea, I have an OCD on names and that just doesn't cut it. But I kinda like the naming convention that @HippoDrone pointed out earlier about the Harris GSXR and Spondon GSXR. Frame Manufacturer gets the brand name, Engine Manufacturer gets the model name.

 

[HippoDrone]

I do think it is also a case of if they are a manufacturer of a vehicle or a custom bike builder, a manufacturer will call it theirs, where as a custom bike builder will call it by the original manufacturer of the bike they customise!

 

[Undead MV]

Everybody manifests OCD for something in particular, there was a time when i was obsessed with battery chargers

 

[SighBored]

If you want to define, then it should always be frame/chassis then engine. You can put an engine into anything but people tend to see the outer appearance of the bike before checking what's under the hood or strapped to the frame of the bike.. That's my opinion anyway.

So if I were to put a BMW HP4 engine into my ZX-6R frame, then it would be called a ZX-6R with a HP4 engine swap/mod. Calling it a HP4 engine in a ZX-6R just feels a bit dumb to me. And it will be common for people to ask "Is that your ZX-6R with a BMW engine inside???" instead of "Hey is that a BMW engine with a Ninja body???".