Vlogging Apathy?

[SwitchBiker]

I haven't uploaded anything in about 3 months, I'll list the reasons why below:

1. My editing computer's power supply went out, bought a new one only to find out the motherboard is cooked as well. Time for a new rig and my money is allotted for other expenses atm, & the laptop is weak and chokes on HD footage which is entirely too frustrating to deal with.
2. Vlogging time has been replaced with drum practice, I don't need a good computer to play drums. bike is a commuter right now.
3. Hours and hours of raw footage loaded on my hard drive, not really wanting to add to it until I can edit through all of it.

 

[TripleTwister]

I do find if Im riding a lot (not now of course), but if I get 4 days out in a week say then thats usually 15-20hrs of footage to sort through. Brilliant knowing Ive gotten to the end and anything half decent has been edited and uploaded though

 

[Cagerontwowheels]

I've set myself to a schedule, to thank my subscribers. One vlog a week, and a "random stuff" video per week. This totals 2 vids a week, on a vlog, another a compilation of random stuff. Gives me the ability to record 2-3-4 vlogs in a trip or a day, then relax about it and just edit them and upload them with no deadline looming (usually, lol).
Also helps to save a "vlog template" project in vegas, so I can just dump the file in there, cut out the non-vlog bit, and encode&upload.
As we say, "In goes the pig, out come the sausages".

And even STILL, I find little time to do it. I'm usually so busy with work, the three kids, the dog, the cat, mainting the house, car and bike... that I gotta rush many vids through production, and dont really have time to do much else online other than reply to some of my comments.

I'd love to have a small meetup of the local vloggers (2? 3?), but where's the time?
There's a point where I think on is all this rushing around worth it, and three things keep me going - the fan apreciation of my vids (people seem to be genuinly enjoying them), the fun I have making them (I love it when the finished product comes out really good), and of course, the extra income, which while little, in this cash-starved corner of europe can go up to about 10% of my income...

I guess many vloggers end up in the same issue - no time, and it becomes more of a job than a hobby. I decided to treat it like a Jobby. (A hobby that is also a job). I got 3k people that signaled their intention to view my vids. I got around 1k that actually go out and seem them, and about 600 that watch them ALL. So I MUST deliver.

 

[Stenno]

My vlogging 'career' is currently on hiatus and has been for a while mainly due a dragged out relocation, but I will be back on it eventually, however what I have noticed over the past 18 months is...

a) none of my subscribers noticed I was 'gone'.
b) I'm not surprised as I myself subscribed to so many vloggers I can't see the wood for the trees which is a shame as there are some really great channels out there.
c) a number of people seem to generate huge sub numbers over night from pulling wheelies and generally dicking around in a way that would lose me my licence here in London (yeah I'm jealous lol)
d) a number of vloggers seem to enter the scene already planning on selling advertising/shirts/stickers etc (tho credit to anyone who does it for charity)
e) some of my once favourite vloggers have let their ego's take over and having let their content suffer because of it.

I guess as with anything, people come and go for their own reasons and we have to respect that, but it's definitely a shame that some just don't get the exposure and credit they deserve in order to inspire them to stick around.

 

[Spacep0d]

d) a number of vloggers seem to enter the scene already planning on selling advertising/shirts/stickers etc (tho credit to anyone who does it for charity)
.

What's wrong with selling branded products? Some of us rely on this income.

I'm a freelance artist. I had a good year in 2012, but my tax bill was so huge that I had to sell my GSX-R 750 (note to self, pay-quarterly next time). I went years without health-insurance because the American, private, individual market is the worst of the worst and very expensive—at least before the reforms that came with the ACA.

I give up a lot to be a freelance artist. Charity? That charity comes in the form of keeping the lights on and mortgage-paid. Sometimes, we're our own charities, and isn't that why most of us hold-down jobs?

I sell decals for the same reason I charge people for design-work or art. It's part of a cumulative total. I do give to charity, but I don't advertise that on my YouTube channel or connect it to my decals. In fact, there are some charities I would view in a negative-light, depending on the charity. Some charities are not as altruistic as they seem, or they engage in discrimination or other unethical practices.

Let's face it, even those who are visibly giving to charity are still in the business of self-promotion. If you give away a decal with your vlogger name on it, and that's a monetized channel, you're still self-promoting. You're just trading the cost of the decal for advertisement. Some people pay for advertising in magazines, name-placement, etc., but I don't see the person giving away decals as inherently-superior to those selling them. It's just that the benefit of selling is more direct than giving them away, but you also get fewer of your decals out there.

We're in the business of vlogging. It's fun, it's often monetized, it's a way to get messages or thoughts out there, and we generally want people to watch. Isn't that why we do what we do?

So, I have nothing against those who choose to give their money to charity in a very visible manner, but I hold nothing against those who sell a product because they might actually need the money themselves to keep the lights on.

The economy has been tough since 2008. I had to diversify from just the video game art I tend to do (freelance). Making my own decals has been one of the many ways I've done that, and I had to learn a whole new skill/craft to make that possible. But, it also means I've been able to help other people make their decals too. Not everyone has the luxury of giving money to charity and not everyone makes their charities public. However, visible charity connected to vlogger decals comes with adulation, self-promotion, tax-benefits, YouTube views and income (for those who are monetized). It's all under the purview of self-promotion in some form, and I am ok with that.

One could say that the net 'gain' for our videos is less than the effort and cost we put forth, but we vlog because we love it, right? We vlog for many reasons. One could say that our videos themselves are a type of charity for those who benefit. How much money does one save by doing a bike mod based on a video I've made about the process, which bolsters confidence and clearly-explains the tools and procedures needed for a job?

Hope that lends some perspective.

 

[Stenno]

Blimey, was it something I said

Considering you've got a 2013 Ninja 300 and you had to pay a large tax bill which would suggest large earnings, I've little sympathy for your reliance on selling merchandise.

Anyway, my point was that some people enter vlogging with their mind already set on selling stuff before they even have a fan base.

 

[shootingrubber]

Blimey, was it something I said

Considering you've got a 2013 Ninja 300 and you had to pay a large tax bill which would suggest large earnings, I've little sympathy for your reliance on selling merchandise.

Anyway, my point was that some people enter vlogging with their mind already set on selling stuff before they even have a fan base.

I honestly don't see the problem with selling merchandise at all. Do you have a job? How is it any different?

 

[Spacep0d]

Blimey, was it something I said

Considering you've got a 2013 Ninja 300 and you had to pay a large tax bill which would suggest large earnings, I've little sympathy for your reliance on selling merchandise.

Anyway, my point was that some people enter vlogging with their mind already set on selling stuff before they even have a fan base.

Right, but my status now is not what it was then as far as earnings go. That's the life of a freelancer. Feast and famine.

People who sell decals are offering goods for a price. Vlogs are the way in which we offer goods for almost nothing. All of us vloggers are doing this, mostly for free, because we love it.

But, I'm not going to say that the person selling products for income is any worse than the person selling products for charity, it's all self-promotion in the end. We just need to remain honest about that fact. People who give-away decals? That's also self-promotion, but it trades income for quantity (not a bad strategy). People who do giveaways? That's also self-promotion. Advertisement and promotion comes in many forms.

 

[Nerb]

I think that monetizing your videos is great. Get a little money for your hobby and/or business. Selling stickers and/or t-shirts is ok. The purchaser is getting something for their purchase. But I have a bit of an issue with a lot of vloggers asking for handouts and putting the paypal link on their channels. I know a lot of vloggers are young and probably dont think about it too much, but the audience is mostly kids. I feel asking for handouts is exploiting kids of their pocket money. When you get the likes of AB (who is surely making something decent from advertisers and his own business) asking for kids to pay for his next coffee, I loose all respect. He's old enough to know that he is just ripping people off. Yes, people will pay, but its no excuse for a shitty practice. Theres a few Australian vloggers that do it also, and i give them shit everytime I talk to them. This is my attitude, and maybe thats why i give away all my youtube money (see... self promotion, im ok with that lol)

Stenno, I agree with your comments. If people want to sell stuff, let them. It doesnt impact the rest of us. But give them hell if they set up a donations box! Maybe its time you did a purge. I'm only subbed to those I watch every video of. I dont see the point is having a thousand people on your subscription list.

 

[Spacep0d]

I think that monetizing your videos is great. Get a little money for your hobby and/or business. Selling stickers and/or t-shirts is ok. The purchaser is getting something for their purchase. But I have a bit of an issue with a lot of vloggers asking for handouts and putting the paypal link on their channels. I know a lot of vloggers are young and probably dont think about it too much, but the audience is mostly kids. I feel asking for handouts is exploiting kids of their pocket money. When you get the likes of AB (who is surely making something decent from advertisers and his own business) asking for kids to pay for his next coffee, I loose all respect. He's old enough to know that he is just ripping people off. Yes, people will pay, but its no excuse for a shitty practice. Theres a few Australian vloggers that do it also, and i give them shit everytime I talk to them. This is my attitude, and maybe thats why i give away all my youtube money (see... self promotion, im ok with that lol)

Stenno, I agree with your comments. If people want to sell stuff, let them. It doesnt impact the rest of us. But give them hell if they set up a donations box! Maybe its time you did a purge. I'm only subbed to those I watch every video of. I dont see the point is having a thousand people on your subscription list.

Donations are just another way for people to show appreciation, like I tip. I've donated to many causes, people, software-authors, etc. ++AB provides a great product and hours of entertainment (like many vloggers). There's no requirement to donate, but if people are so-moved they can donate. Nobody is making anyone donate or calling anyone out for not donating. A donate button doesn't pick my pocket or break my leg. Occasionally though, a video one produces might save someone gobs of time, wasted-effort, energy and money. That's the occasion where people may donate for your efforts. I know that I've had occasion to thank someone for making a video they didn't have to make.

Bottom line is this, run your vlog the way you want as long as you're being ethical. There's nothing unethical about a donation button. Most vloggers who have it probably forget it's there. Selling/giving-away decals is fine. It's a branded product. There's benefit to the person receiving and also the person giving. Everyone wins, and nobody has to buy anything they don't want to buy. It's like a tip-cup at the coffee shop. Most of the time I won't tip for coffee, but on the occasion I get great service that makes me feel better than when I came in, I'll toss in a buck or two.

 

[Nerb]

Donations are just another way for people to show appreciation, like I tip. I've donated to many causes, people, software-authors, etc. ++AB provides a great product and hours of entertainment (like many vloggers). There's no requirement to donate, but if people are so-moved they can donate. Nobody is making anyone donate or calling anyone out for not donating. A donate button doesn't pick my pocket or break my leg. Occasionally though, a video one produces might save someone gobs of time, wasted-effort, energy and money. That's the occasion where people may donate for your efforts. I know that I've had occasion to thank someone for making a video they didn't have to make.

Bottom line is this, run your vlog the way you want as long as you're being ethical. There's nothing unethical about a donation button. Most vloggers who have it probably forget it's there. Selling/giving-away decals is fine. It's a branded product. There's benefit to the person receiving and also the person giving. Everyone wins, and nobody has to buy anything they don't want to buy. It's like a tip-cup at the coffee shop. Most of the time I won't tip for coffee, but on the occasion I get great service that makes me feel better than when I came in, I'll toss in a buck or two.

ok, i'd like to know what you think of this situation... a well known vlogger works for a bank and makes say $100k per year. He is popular on youtube because he has a bike people are envious of and makes another $1k a month off youtube advertising. Now he adds a paypal button and happily accepts 15 year old kids sending him their pocket money because its the cool thing to do. Is this ethical? If it is, then fair enough, i'm just on a different wavelength. If it is not, then how can any vlogger have a paypal button? Should they disclose their financial situation? I feel like its as if every television show had a paypal button..... we pay for our television shows already by watching adverts. Or we subscribe to pay tv. Youtube has pay per view options for those that think they are worth it.

Is the above hypothetical? Nope.

 

[thunderous71]

ok, i'd like to know what you think of this situation... a well known vlogger works for a bank and makes say $100k per year. He is popular on youtube because he has a bike people are envious of and makes another $1k a month off youtube advertising. Now he adds a paypal button and happily accepts 15 year old kids sending him their pocket money because its the cool thing to do. Is this ethical? If it is, then fair enough, i'm just on a different wavelength. If it is not, then how can any vlogger have a paypal button? Should they disclose their financial situation? I feel like its as if every television show had a paypal button..... we pay for our television shows already by watching adverts. Or we subscribe to pay tv. Youtube has pay per view options for those that think they are worth it.

Is the above hypothetical? Nope.

Is it fair? Well to be honest that doesn't come into it, people will spend their money on what makes them feel better not because its the cool thing to do. As for earning so much and still making more, well that's life. Some people get a better roll of the dice. Money breads money as well as greed and sadly that is a common trait in people.
Like people looking at sub count as a measurement of success, others look at money.

Personally I look at happiness But hey that's just me!

 

[Stenno]

If you like any of my topic replies, why not donate...

 

[Shirou]

I'm with Thunderous71 on this one. By doing this I seek personal satisfaction in the way I do something I like and somebody else behind watches my stuff and likes the same thing. Money through advertising is a crappy idea for me. I hate ads, can't even browse the web without adblock. The last thing I'd do is shove ads into the faces of my viewers.

I also have other reasons, investing in equipment and time isn't something you do just for the sake of it. I don't do it for money, there's no way to earn enough doing this. And this is an expensive hobby, at least it is for me.

[beware, rant coming]
Amount of subscribers? we get into dick waving and badly chosen measurement territory. Something I don't like about some vloggers is when they start talking about subscribers, hoy many or how little they have, or they just want to get more (if this gets nn subs I'm gonna give away xx product) and that's consistent with new vloggers, I watched some of them grow up since they got less than 50 subs and then bam!, they get 1000 after a week, then it comes the thank-you video, 10 minutes wasted hearing 20 times the S word. The funny thing is, you comment on their videos and you get no response from the uploader. They reply 1 or 2 comments and you don't hear about them again. I give them credit for the things they do but I think a huge part of this is having some feedback, you liked getting 1000 subs, you better take care of them. That's the problem when they become too big. Feedback goes both ways, you want me to comment, you better give me a reply.
I know of some 2 mvloggers (from the top of my head) that have 10k+ subs and they take the time to go around the comments, reply to almost all of them, even the trolls. I got so engaged with this when I saw not just a video of a good rider enjoying himself on the road but an actual person behind, taking care of his channel and the people commenting, giving advice to new riders, bashing the trolls. I got good vibes from them so I decided to give mvlogging a try.
And they have 10k and 15k subscribers.
How can anybody be unable to handle half or a third of that?
What I'm trying to say is, I'm not a number, watchers and followers are not a frigging number, you cannot measure anything by subscribers amount. You can have 100k subs but if you don't give anything but a video and a name back, you're a crappy vlogger and don't deserve what you have.
[/rant]

Sorry about that, I needed to vent. I know this is not the place or thread but whatever.

 

[Spacep0d]

ok, i'd like to know what you think of this situation... a well known vlogger works for a bank and makes say $100k per year. He is popular on youtube because he has a bike people are envious of and makes another $1k a month off youtube advertising. Now he adds a paypal button and happily accepts 15 year old kids sending him their pocket money because its the cool thing to do. Is this ethical? If it is, then fair enough, i'm just on a different wavelength. If it is not, then how can any vlogger have a paypal button? Should they disclose their financial situation? I feel like its as if every television show had a paypal button..... we pay for our television shows already by watching adverts. Or we subscribe to pay tv. Youtube has pay per view options for those that think they are worth it.

Is the above hypothetical? Nope.

It's inequity in many ways, but life is not fair. He makes $100k, but even the fact that he makes that much compared to some others isn't necessarily 'fair', right? He has a bike people might want to see (I think I know who you're talking-about) but that's a bike he's actually riding. He's probably got that bike for more reasons than just making people envious. People might be envious of nearly anyone on a bike if they're not riding or able to ride.

It snows where some people live. I live in Sunny SoCal. That's not fair, is it? Some vloggers can't even ride for 5-6 months out of the year. That is definitely not fair. Meanwhile, I'm motovlogging year-round.

A 15-year-old kid may or may not send pocket-money, but you've chosen an emotionally-charged hypothetical. If the 15-year old is that happy to send money, then that 15 year old must be very happy about the videos he or she is watching. Videos can change your outlook, save you money, time, expense, etc. They can change your life in some cases. But, it's not going to be 15 year olds in most cases...it'll be people of all ages, especially those with disposable income. 15 year olds, unless they're well-off, aren't going to throw-away what little money they have, generally. I didn't when I was 15.

Let's face it, life is unfair. Why do some vloggers have more subs/views than others? Some live in nice-weather areas where they can ride year-round (unfair). Some people make way more than others, even if they're not smarter or more talented. Some are born to rich parents. Some live in countries with Universal healthcare while others go broke because they happened to get cancer, and their insurance refused to pay.

When it comes to law, we need to be fair. But, life is not fair and people are not the same. Smart, resourceful people will always find a way to succeed...even if they're buying a certain bike just to get views. That costs money, but there's some return there too.

Would a vlogger move to an area with better weather just to vlog year-round? I'm sure someone has done it or considered it.

The thing is, as a vlogger you can improve your situation. We all can. We can all get better jobs based on our own efforts. Some of us are young and just starting-out, but some are older and a little more-established. Things we do make a difference...even discussing it on this forum.

 

[Spacep0d]

[beware, rant coming]
Amount of subscribers? we get into dick waving and badly chosen measurement territory. Something I don't like about some vloggers is when they start talking about subscribers, hoy many or how little they have, or they just want to get more (if this gets nn subs I'm gonna give away xx product) and that's consistent with new vloggers, I watched some of them grow up since they got less than 50 subs and then bam!, they get 1000 after a week, then it comes the thank-you video, 10 minutes wasted hearing 20 times the S word. The funny thing is, you comment on their videos and you get no response from the uploader. They reply 1 or 2 comments and you don't hear about them again. I give them credit for the things they do but I think a huge part of this is having some feedback, you liked getting 1000 subs, you better take care of them. That's the problem when they become too big. Feedback goes both ways, you want me to comment, you better give me a reply.
I know of some 2 mvloggers (from the top of my head) that have 10k+ subs and they take the time to go around the comments, reply to almost all of them, even the trolls. I got so engaged with this when I saw not just a video of a good rider enjoying himself on the road but an actual person behind, taking care of his channel and the people commenting, giving advice to new riders, bashing the trolls. I got good vibes from them so I decided to give mvlogging a try.
And they have 10k and 15k subscribers.
How can anybody be unable to handle half or a third of that?
What I'm trying to say is, I'm not a number, watchers and followers are not a frigging number, you cannot measure anything by subscribers amount. You can have 100k subs but if you don't give anything but a video and a name back, you're a crappy vlogger and don't deserve what you have.
[/rant]

Sorry about that, I needed to vent. I know this is not the place or thread but whatever.

Yeah, not a fan of giveaways to get subs. Subs don't have a vested-interest in a motovlogger reaching x number of subs. I would never sub to someone just for a chance of winning whatever chachkes are being given-away. I sub for content and personality. Secondarily, the camera-work, audio, bike and location.

One thing that impresses me is vloggers who take the time to reply to people, as you've mentioned. Some vloggers will not give you the time of day, even if you write a nice personal note. Some respond to everyone, and that matters. A lot.

Subs are one measure, but it's also views, engagement, acknowledgement from other vloggers (always nice), camaraderie, community, etc.

In the end, are we producing good content? That's what matters. I sometimes watch my old vids that aren't so fresh in my mind, and if I can make myself laugh or smile at some insight, or I am still happy with the vid months later, I think I've done ok. That's one of the reasons I tackle controversial subjects on-occasion. Once you have an audience, what are you going to do with it? May as well try to improve things, assuming one's ideas are an improvement. It's ok to be controversial *if* one is willing to engage the commenters in debate when it arises, and not censor dissent or disagreement. Then, people feel like they're actually weighing-in instead of listening to a one-way speech. Sometimes, commenters will change your mind about something we missed.

But yeah, mad-respect for vloggers, especially the big ones, who take time to respond to comments and queries. For those who don't—I notice it and I feel a little less connected to those vloggers.

 

[kryten]

I discovered another reason I sometimes don't upload anything. Dead batteries. Last night for the second time in just that last few weeks I had my battery die in the middle of shooting a video. I was almost in tears when I ended the vlog and then noticed the camera was off. :cry:

I shot a video for my Story Time With Kryten series and it would probably have been one of the best vlogs I've ever done. I didn't have to start over much and everything was going really smoothly. By the end of the video was was genuinely laughing my ass off. Now I have to reshoot it. If you're ever been in this situation you probably know reshooting can sometimes take the sincerity away since you're just repeating lines and not saying things off the cuff.

Oh well. When I get a chance maybe I'll go back out and reshoot it.

 

[MrFalloffalot]

I discovered another reason I sometimes don't upload anything. Dead batteries. Last night for the second time in just that last few weeks I had my battery die in the middle of shooting a video. I was almost in tears when I ended the vlog and then noticed the camera was off. :cry:

I shot a video for my Story Time With Kryten series and it would probably have been one of the best vlogs I've ever done. I didn't have to start over much and everything was going really smoothly. By the end of the video was was genuinely laughing my ass off. Now I have to reshoot it. If you're ever been in this situation you probably know reshooting can sometimes take the sincerity away since you're just repeating lines and not saying things off the cuff.

Oh well. When I get a chance maybe I'll go back out and reshoot it.

Theirs allways a good reason somewhere, to go out for another ride. :lol:

 

[Shirou]

I discovered another reason I sometimes don't upload anything. Dead batteries. Last night for the second time in just that last few weeks I had my battery die in the middle of shooting a video. I was almost in tears when I ended the vlog and then noticed the camera was off. :cry:

I shot a video for my Story Time With Kryten series and it would probably have been one of the best vlogs I've ever done. I didn't have to start over much and everything was going really smoothly. By the end of the video was was genuinely laughing my ass off. Now I have to reshoot it. If you're ever been in this situation you probably know reshooting can sometimes take the sincerity away since you're just repeating lines and not saying things off the cuff.

Oh well. When I get a chance maybe I'll go back out and reshoot it.

That is THE WORST thing that can happen to a vlogger. Last week I geared up and put my camera to record, went to punch my card at work and I tought that my camera was not recording, pressed record again and the camera obviously stopped. That vlog was awesome, I had a load of fun doing it, I went to the track, I even found a guy carying a HUGE salami on his bike (it actually was a mortadela), started following him and vlogging and stuff. That was gold material, all lost. Came back home and saw the green light on the camera. I was bummed for the rest of the week.
Reshooting for me is not an option, every reshoot I do ends up too staged and boring and no way of finding salami guy again.
Another crap shot is finding out your footage ended up with no audio (mic disconnected) or poor audio (mic repositioned).
There's so much that can go wrong while mvlogging.

 

[Nerb]

Is it fair? Well to be honest that doesn't come into it

It's inequity in many ways, but life is not fair......A 15-year-old kid may or may not send pocket-money, but you've chosen an emotionally-charged hypothetical. If the 15-year old is that happy to send money, then that 15 year old must be very happy about the videos he or she is watching. Videos can change your outlook, save you money, time, expense, etc. They can change your life in some cases. But, it's not going to be 15 year olds in most cases...it'll be people of all ages, especially those with disposable income.

I didnt say "is it fair". I asked if you thought it was ethical.
Both of your "fair/unfair" comments are fine. As you say, not much is fair except communist russia (?). But this doesn't worry me.
I don't think its ethical if people are asked to send money without knowing what they're sending it for. I see it as the difference between a charity asking for money and tom cruise getting on tv saying "send me the money". Why would he say that? It would be exploitation right? And he would get hammered for it. Motovloggers, while not being tom cruises, are certainly not charities.

I should also say, I didn't realise (until 5 mins ago) spacepod has a paypal button on his channel. I, in no way, was directing any of my comments at him. However, now I'd like to suggest changing the "donate" tag to "purchase"

Also, for a short time I agreed with Shirou, but I figured let them go for it. I know that playing numbers works. Anyone could go around spamming and pick up a crap load of subs, but if they don't continue to watch, then they're useless anyway. So I just ignore any thread on here that says "ive got xxx subs". This conversation, on the other hand, is very interesting... although I'm worried this has been a thread hijack?