ChunksLife
Chunk
i know not every one will agree this is just how i feel about the situation of getting a motorcycle licence in the uk
Rant Stupid Uk Licensing Laws
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Lurch
Administrator
This could be a long one.
Firstly the money you've spent on CBT you could have long passed your test.
The new system has been brought in because accident rates haven't fallen amongst new young riders. And due to the system and when it was introduced you won't see any changes in the stats probably until at least next year due to age banding.
The new system is part of the EU 3rd Directive of tiered learning. Each member state has to comply, but it's up to them how they do it. Britain so far has basically made it so that people will ride on CBT until 19 or 24, although the A2 category opens up a lot of bikes so I suspect many will get an A2 licence.
CBT is BASIC training. It's machine control and modicum of ability on the road, but it's badly lacking with L platers being a major accident statistic, especially in London. Basically it's not enough, so new things are rolling out. Personally I think the theory test should be a prerequisite.
If you really think you can pass a big bike test tomorrow, go buy one and do it. However DAS training is a bit more than you think it is. While bigger bikes can be easiito ride, they can also get you into a LOT of trouble very, very quickly, which is why learners are limited to a bike that won't fling them in to a wall at high speed.
What you've gained in 11 years is a lot of experience. You've not gained knowledge and you've not increased your riding skills. More than likely, you're getting away with the same thing day in day out and you're not actually learning.
CBT isn't designed to be repeated. It's a route to practice for a licence, always has been, and IMO, repeat CBT needs to be discouraged.
Back to tiered learning from my digression. The whole point of the new system is you practice a bit on CBT, maybe get training for an A1 licence, train for an A2, then train for an A. Training is the theme because those who undertake more training are less likely to be a statistic. You can't go from a CBT to a Fireblade just because you've been riding for years. The statistics show it's a swift route to death, hence tiered training, or wait until you're old enough and hopefully have the maturity to ride a powerful machine after seeking the proper training.
Firstly the money you've spent on CBT you could have long passed your test.
The new system has been brought in because accident rates haven't fallen amongst new young riders. And due to the system and when it was introduced you won't see any changes in the stats probably until at least next year due to age banding.
The new system is part of the EU 3rd Directive of tiered learning. Each member state has to comply, but it's up to them how they do it. Britain so far has basically made it so that people will ride on CBT until 19 or 24, although the A2 category opens up a lot of bikes so I suspect many will get an A2 licence.
CBT is BASIC training. It's machine control and modicum of ability on the road, but it's badly lacking with L platers being a major accident statistic, especially in London. Basically it's not enough, so new things are rolling out. Personally I think the theory test should be a prerequisite.
If you really think you can pass a big bike test tomorrow, go buy one and do it. However DAS training is a bit more than you think it is. While bigger bikes can be easiito ride, they can also get you into a LOT of trouble very, very quickly, which is why learners are limited to a bike that won't fling them in to a wall at high speed.
What you've gained in 11 years is a lot of experience. You've not gained knowledge and you've not increased your riding skills. More than likely, you're getting away with the same thing day in day out and you're not actually learning.
CBT isn't designed to be repeated. It's a route to practice for a licence, always has been, and IMO, repeat CBT needs to be discouraged.
Back to tiered learning from my digression. The whole point of the new system is you practice a bit on CBT, maybe get training for an A1 licence, train for an A2, then train for an A. Training is the theme because those who undertake more training are less likely to be a statistic. You can't go from a CBT to a Fireblade just because you've been riding for years. The statistics show it's a swift route to death, hence tiered training, or wait until you're old enough and hopefully have the maturity to ride a powerful machine after seeking the proper training.
ChunksLife
Chunk
im more then old enough to take any test i disagree totally iv had 125s that were able to do over 120mph the speed is not the problem you learn things new all the time i still do after all these year i don't agree with the fact you can be over 25 and take your full licence i believe you need more experience and it should be a time progressive system i agree there should be a theory to the cbt at the same time taking a test dose not mean shit iv bin taking tests that have been pointless my whole life and no test proves how you would react to dangerous situations and that is what's needed rather then proving what i consider basic skills.
dandoolittle
Site owner, lovely and adorable
Part time CBT trainer (downtrained) here (@Lurch can verify)- You cannot really 'fail' a CBT unless you're wreck less or stupid, unlike the proper test.
A CBT you can give a slip just because they've done something once, doesn't matter that the other 5 attempts was a bit shit - Unlike the test which is one cock up, you get marked etc - Most CBT schools go for bulk, sell cheap move quick... Thankfully the guy who's been training me is shit hot so no excuses.
Moving from a 125 to a 1000c, rarely happens without a bump once or twice! Yea, you may pull it off but most don't and your term 'riding is riding' - Not really. Yea I know you said you've had a bimble on some bigger bikes but if I can be blunt, your throttle control and a few things in that video would get you marked on a test
I'm sure my own riding these days would maybe get me a fail lol but I'd 100% 'pass' a CBT
A skilled 500cc rider can eat an unexperienced 1000cc rider alive on a road or a track, heck, some 125 riders can ride quicker and smoother than a 600cc in the right conditions
A CBT you can give a slip just because they've done something once, doesn't matter that the other 5 attempts was a bit shit - Unlike the test which is one cock up, you get marked etc - Most CBT schools go for bulk, sell cheap move quick... Thankfully the guy who's been training me is shit hot so no excuses.
Moving from a 125 to a 1000c, rarely happens without a bump once or twice! Yea, you may pull it off but most don't and your term 'riding is riding' - Not really. Yea I know you said you've had a bimble on some bigger bikes but if I can be blunt, your throttle control and a few things in that video would get you marked on a test
I'm sure my own riding these days would maybe get me a fail lol but I'd 100% 'pass' a CBT A skilled 500cc rider can eat an unexperienced 1000cc rider alive on a road or a track, heck, some 125 riders can ride quicker and smoother than a 600cc in the right conditions
dandoolittle
Site owner, lovely and adorable
ChunksLife
Chunk
they have nothing to compare it to they haven't tried the way i would do itStatistics will prove otherwise
Lurch
Administrator
Picking up on your point you've done tests that don't mean shit - CBT isn't a test.
Also, speed isn't the issue. Head on crash at 50moh will have the same outcome be it a CB125 or a CBR1000. It's the power that'll get you. A 125 can only lay down a limited amount of horsepower.
You're absolutely correct that it's bonkers to go do a DAS and buy a litre bike the next day, and it should be tiered, and that's the aim of the new system. We're not going to know if most people will do this for a couple of years yet though.
It's also, by the same token, that you can do a driving test and legally drive a Ferrari the next day, but it happens. And the 3rd directive started on bikes but there's scope for cars. The reason it's so prevalent for bikes is that you can buy a powerful bike for £2000 and insure it for probably £1000. Car insurers generally won't insure for ridiculous cars at a young age, and car prices for supercars that "the kids" will drive ain't cheap either.
Also, speed isn't the issue. Head on crash at 50moh will have the same outcome be it a CB125 or a CBR1000. It's the power that'll get you. A 125 can only lay down a limited amount of horsepower.
You're absolutely correct that it's bonkers to go do a DAS and buy a litre bike the next day, and it should be tiered, and that's the aim of the new system. We're not going to know if most people will do this for a couple of years yet though.
It's also, by the same token, that you can do a driving test and legally drive a Ferrari the next day, but it happens. And the 3rd directive started on bikes but there's scope for cars. The reason it's so prevalent for bikes is that you can buy a powerful bike for £2000 and insure it for probably £1000. Car insurers generally won't insure for ridiculous cars at a young age, and car prices for supercars that "the kids" will drive ain't cheap either.
Lurch
Administrator
You've managed to post at a time a CBT instructor and someone who reads lots about road safety have been online.
Might seem like we've jumped in this a bit hard, but you've made a video that brings up some very good discussion points and shows up how the system is perceived. It's not a perfect system, but the intentions behind it are solid, and it'd be nice to see more people embrace it following the early and current criticism of it.
Might seem like we've jumped in this a bit hard, but you've made a video that brings up some very good discussion points and shows up how the system is perceived. It's not a perfect system, but the intentions behind it are solid, and it'd be nice to see more people embrace it following the early and current criticism of it.
ChunksLife
Chunk
i know its not a test and i have only ever seen 1 person fail it and as for tests i mean every test iv taken from school to college a test doesn't prove any thing capability isn't proved by tests 1 example was the top welder at my college failed because he ballsed up once on the day and i passed i wasn't half as good as him yet i got the certificate he didn't.
tests have always seemed pointless to me now training is 100% more important then any test
tests have always seemed pointless to me now training is 100% more important then any test
ChunksLife
Chunk
as you know i love a good discussion and debate i bring up these controversial subjects because they are things that need discussing.
Lurch
Administrator
Very true, but how else can you assess the training given if not by a test? There's no other system in place.
I say that, the 3rd direct speaks nothing of further testing to improve your licence, sonit is possible that you can upgrade by instructor assessment. However, that system is heavily open for abuse. People have obtained CBTs by purely turning up and paying for the certificate. At least to get a licence you have to go to a government run centre that's less open to abuse.
ChunksLife
Chunk
once you have been trained i feel you then know what to do y the need for a test once the test is over people end up going back to there own ways of riding people will literally ride immaculately for a test then not use what they have learnt ever again
ChunksLife
Chunk
id prefer to be taught how and y im doing things but once iv learnt i don't see the point in a test i would rather spend 6 months in training then a 4 hour test a test proves nothing id prefer to learn how to do something correctly after correct training a test shouldn't be needed.
ChunksLife
Chunk
no system is flawless there are all reddy ways to get around the systems in place but how would a test examiner cope with a person with anxiety problems that doesn't cope well under the test circumstances with frontal lobe brain damage witch can cause them to violently react when they don' agree with what there being told to do topped off with learning difficulty's ?
Lurch
Administrator
If you have that kind of disability then you'd have restrictions on your licence, if you were allowed one anyway.
There is provision under UK and EU law for special testing for people with disabilities.
No system is perfect, but decentralising the test system will lead to varying standards and widespread abuse.
There is provision under UK and EU law for special testing for people with disabilities.
No system is perfect, but decentralising the test system will lead to varying standards and widespread abuse.
ChunksLife
Chunk
and yes i have all of those problems but it dose not stop me doing anything it only affects the people that have no understanding of it i don't class it as a disability only thing its ever stopped me doing was passing my driving test because i punched my examiner in the throat because he tried telling me to correct my positioning when i wasn't doing it wrong.
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