Proof That Cyclists Are Amazing . . .
- Thread starter TheGriffiss
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kryten
Wannabie Member
I fucking hate pedal pushers. I hate them. I have a friend that's a pedal pusher. I secretly hate him too. Pompous twat!
I've had so many problems with cyclist in the middle of the road in blind turns and then they get pissed at me because I almost hit them. Or they get out in the middle of the road when they could easily ride off to the side and let people get by. They block people to make a statement. Just because they're allowed to use the road doesn't mean they should in all cases. I honestly don't think they should be allowed on the road at least not in the US. I'm not sure what it's like there but here they don't pay any kind of road tax or insurance. If I hit one of them and it's their fault my insurance has to pay and my rates go up.
I fucking hate pedal pushers.
I've had so many problems with cyclist in the middle of the road in blind turns and then they get pissed at me because I almost hit them. Or they get out in the middle of the road when they could easily ride off to the side and let people get by. They block people to make a statement. Just because they're allowed to use the road doesn't mean they should in all cases. I honestly don't think they should be allowed on the road at least not in the US. I'm not sure what it's like there but here they don't pay any kind of road tax or insurance. If I hit one of them and it's their fault my insurance has to pay and my rates go up.
I fucking hate pedal pushers.
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TheGriffiss
Staple My Balls And Call Me Crazy
O8ride
O8
Sorry Griffis, I sat there cringing all the way through listening to your rant, and then when you said "and they don't pay road tax" I had to turn off because you proved you know nothing about the subject. Pompous, arrogant, disrespectful, factually inaccurate and irrelevant. I know my opinion directly contradicts yours, but hey ho, that's the fun of it all
Rhydian
Wannabie Member
08ride you're completely right.
and TheGriffis, please open your mind and do some homework before your try share your biased opinions with anyone else.
Yes you are biased, all of your information has no consideration of the cyclists point of view.
you ARE going to get someone killed if you do not learn how other road users think.
and TheGriffis, please open your mind and do some homework before your try share your biased opinions with anyone else.
Yes you are biased, all of your information has no consideration of the cyclists point of view.
you ARE going to get someone killed if you do not learn how other road users think.
CaptainCranky
Misunderstood genius
I can see both side of the debate here. I was a cyclist in London for 9 years a long time ago - before there was any sense of "entitlement" or indeed even a need to wear a helmet.
I didn't get in anyone's way and I mostly kept up with the traffic flow.
I saw myself as the most vulnerable and least entitled road user and rode accordingly.
I personally think it's a shame you feel like you do towards cyclists, maybe it's because things have changed so much back there (I've lived in Oz for 26 years) - ie more cyclists on the road with more of a sense of entitlement. I see this as a parrallel to other situations in life, where "entitlement" leads to the loss of common sense. Cyclists should be more careful, as they are fairly slow and vulnerable, other road users should cut them a little slack when a dodgy situation arises - they could all get along nicely with a bit of common sense...
Perhaps also with more and more cyclists appearing it's time to make proper cycle paths, away from the roads?
I didn't get in anyone's way and I mostly kept up with the traffic flow.
I saw myself as the most vulnerable and least entitled road user and rode accordingly.
I personally think it's a shame you feel like you do towards cyclists, maybe it's because things have changed so much back there (I've lived in Oz for 26 years) - ie more cyclists on the road with more of a sense of entitlement. I see this as a parrallel to other situations in life, where "entitlement" leads to the loss of common sense. Cyclists should be more careful, as they are fairly slow and vulnerable, other road users should cut them a little slack when a dodgy situation arises - they could all get along nicely with a bit of common sense...
Perhaps also with more and more cyclists appearing it's time to make proper cycle paths, away from the roads?
TheGriffiss
Staple My Balls And Call Me Crazy
Well they dont pay road tax, which i understand is for c02 emissions, however the money goes towards maintaining the roads which they use. 'Factually' it is very good. 'Irrelevant' not really because that is what MY Vlog which YOU chose to watch is about. 'Disrespectful' not really. at the start of the video, there was a bloke walking his bike across at . . . get this - A Crossing! Nothing wrong with that. He did this rather than what most cyclists do is if they hit a red light, ride up the path to use the green light for the traffic going the other way to cross. If your riding on the road, obey the rules. I dont do that on my Motorbike if i hit a red light. Is it disrespectful to yell at someone cycling on a road where the path has a cycle path on it???? Or is it just loudly informing them? The dictionary says arrogance is an attitude of superiority manifested by presumptuous claims or assumptions. I do not have an attitude of superiority since i am one of the smaller most vulnerable road users and ride as such. However, i do 'assume' that most car drivers havnt seen me and 'claim' that they are about to something idiotic. It what keeps me aware of everything and stops me getting into dangerous situations. Pompous. Meh. But like you said , if we all thought the same thing, ahd the same opinions, then what the fuck is the point eh?
TheGriffiss
Staple My Balls And Call Me Crazy
Exactly times are changing, riding in london is different. There are more bikes there and are millions of lanes for them to ride in. Half the riders are idiots, half are fine. The idiots seem to think the road is theirs and we should thank them for being on it. If i went out for a ride with the attitude of cyclists i would wake up dead . . .All tests for vehicles take into account cyclists e.g. hazard perception test where there is always a dodgy cyclist who is the hazard, or even out riding/driving you may come across one. Cyclists need to do nothing to ride on the roads.
TheGriffiss
Staple My Balls And Call Me Crazy
The cyclist point of view should be; you are the smallest, slowest, MOST vulnerable thing on the roads. You do everything possible to be safe and seen. Helmet, Flashing lights, high vis clothing. People do not want to hit you. When overtaking cars give a very wide gap - most of the time. But what do you expect people to do when two bikes sit next to each other, or wiggle all over the road as they have not as much control. Just sit behind and wait for you. Everyone wants to get where they are going. If someone yells abuse at you, why dont you have a look at your road positioning? General surroundings? I admit people get pissed and yell at me when i do something stupid on my bike. but i know ive done it. Its how the world works.
How many times have you seen a car move over for a cyclist? Now how many times for a motorbike? It is a respect thing. Majority of cyclists people come across on the roads - have no respect for others - probably they are fed up of people getting pissed off at them for no reason so they stop caring. thats not really the attitude. There is no way to know how every road user thinks. I drive a car, have a bike and have a FULL HGV licence. I have done and advanced drives course - the one the police do. How do i know what any road user is thinking at one time. I never presume someone in a car has seen me when im on my bike. Since i drive a car i look out more for bikes - naturally. How much do you think you can see when you are in an Arctic Lorry?? I dont assume that someone is behind, left, or right of me when doing anything. As for getting someone killed? more like me getting killed by some one. Look at biker deaths caused by other vecicle statistics.
OoxTruExoO
Wannabie Member
While I don't agree with passing a cyclist that closely and rev-bombing to scare them, I do agree that they are becoming an increasingly persistent problem on the roads. Some YouTube cyclists are clearly out to get footage, and ride with a "get a reaction" attitude.
The problem lies in that they have no accountability. If there were more rules governing them rather than the "You can use the road in any way you see fit" rule that they follow, it would be safer for everyone. They should have an identification plate on their bikes (maybe a green one so that plate numbers from cars can be re-used and also signify how they are personally saving the planet) A law stating that if there is a cycle lane provided, it must be used or else face prosecution would be beneficial. If they deem the cycle path unfit for use (as many seem to do) then they should write to their council and request that the issue be fixed. The council in turn must respond. If they receive a certain number of complaints, they must take action to either correct the offending pothole or position of the lane or whatever or remove the lane completely and let the cyclists use the road. It's give and take.
I dislike cyclists being in the middle of a road when there is a hard shoulder there, or a completely empty footpath, but I'm not going to endanger their life by following/passing too close. Most will argue that its illegal to cycle on the footpath, but will use it when it's convenient for them. They'll also ignore the fact that it's illegal to pass the white line at a red light. I can understand why some of them pull to the centre when there is a narrowing part up ahead, and adjust my speed accordingly. It really boils my blood though when they just suddenly veer from one lane to another to pass a stationary vehicle with no indication and not even looking. If they can't even care to look out for themselves, why should they expect anyone look out for them?
I don't dislike all cyclists. Some do relieve pressure on traffic in some situations. They ride courteously, and most likely have a licence and know the rules of the road. The fact that even a ten year old can use our roads with a bicycle though with no training is a bit ridiculous.
Edit: Had to look up the minimum age of cyclists... apparently there is none. 10 years old is minimum age of criminal responsibility though.
The problem lies in that they have no accountability. If there were more rules governing them rather than the "You can use the road in any way you see fit" rule that they follow, it would be safer for everyone. They should have an identification plate on their bikes (maybe a green one so that plate numbers from cars can be re-used and also signify how they are personally saving the planet) A law stating that if there is a cycle lane provided, it must be used or else face prosecution would be beneficial. If they deem the cycle path unfit for use (as many seem to do) then they should write to their council and request that the issue be fixed. The council in turn must respond. If they receive a certain number of complaints, they must take action to either correct the offending pothole or position of the lane or whatever or remove the lane completely and let the cyclists use the road. It's give and take.
I dislike cyclists being in the middle of a road when there is a hard shoulder there, or a completely empty footpath, but I'm not going to endanger their life by following/passing too close. Most will argue that its illegal to cycle on the footpath, but will use it when it's convenient for them. They'll also ignore the fact that it's illegal to pass the white line at a red light. I can understand why some of them pull to the centre when there is a narrowing part up ahead, and adjust my speed accordingly. It really boils my blood though when they just suddenly veer from one lane to another to pass a stationary vehicle with no indication and not even looking. If they can't even care to look out for themselves, why should they expect anyone look out for them?
I don't dislike all cyclists. Some do relieve pressure on traffic in some situations. They ride courteously, and most likely have a licence and know the rules of the road. The fact that even a ten year old can use our roads with a bicycle though with no training is a bit ridiculous.
Edit: Had to look up the minimum age of cyclists... apparently there is none. 10 years old is minimum age of criminal responsibility though.
TheGriffiss
Staple My Balls And Call Me Crazy
All very true. A bit of sanity to any discussion always helps
the main point which i did fail to get across is that lack of respect is an issue.
oh yeah . . . and i clicked the button, it was so tempting
Road tax in the UK is essentially no longer "road tax". It is just a common name given to the tax or vehicle excise duty.
Vehicle excise duty is what we pay for the emissions on cars which is why more modern diesels pay £30 a year, road tax is actually covered under local taxing for example council tax.
So any persons who is paying council tax has a right of way on the roads.
I also have a personal hate for cyclists. Mainly those who have no regards for their personal safety on the roads and then have the cheek to blame me for the near miss we have both just suffered.
Vehicle excise duty is what we pay for the emissions on cars which is why more modern diesels pay £30 a year, road tax is actually covered under local taxing for example council tax.
So any persons who is paying council tax has a right of way on the roads.
I also have a personal hate for cyclists. Mainly those who have no regards for their personal safety on the roads and then have the cheek to blame me for the near miss we have both just suffered.
TheGriffiss
Staple My Balls And Call Me Crazy
Shadetreesurgeon
Wannabie Member
Hey, I know a lot of serious cyclist who wear all their road gear and follow all the road rules and generally are great people. But the vast majority of them are stupid stuck up hipsters who bought a fixed gear bike and don't follow shit for rules, at least in my town. They blow through red lights constantly, dart across traffic anytime they feel and are basically a menace. I agree with the sense of entitlement, just because you're on a bicycle OR a motorcycle that doesn't mean the burden of responsibility for looking out for you should fall on other people. Cyclist in my town run around with a chip on their shoulder and something to prove... it pisses me off.
O8ride
O8
Wow. Just wow.
I think you should run for your local council, you clearly have all the answers, even if based on factually incorrect misunderstandings and irrelevant stereotypes about cyclists and cycling and "road tax" (LOL! - you finally admitted it), and a complete disregard for the cyclists and cycling. You're on a winner!
The other way of looking at it is that you protest too much and arrogantly claim to know everything needed to be known to make the streets a safer place for everyone while using factually incorrect and rant-style arguments.
Here's a thought - why don't you just be more respectful to others? Some individuals may be arses, irrespective of their mode of transport, but I certainly don't tar every motorcyclist with the words I used in my original post above to describe your vlog. But that is essentially what you are doing.
Let me ask a few questions:
a) why might a cyclist choose not to ride on the edge of the road?
b) have you ever thought about defensive aggressive riding style?
c) do cyclists generally get knocked over because i) they ride in the gutter so cars pass them too close, ii) they hit a pothole or water in the gutter and veer into traffic that is overtaking them too close, iii) they are caught in the windrush of a lorry passing them too close thus pulling them into the lorry, iv) they hit broken glass or nails swept into the gutter, suffer a blow out, and lose control, v) they are not seen by a car emerging from a side road because a tree or lamppost obscures them becauyse they are so close to the kerb, vi) because they are further out in the road forcing others to see them and to overtake them safely and at a safe place?
I think you should run for your local council, you clearly have all the answers, even if based on factually incorrect misunderstandings and irrelevant stereotypes about cyclists and cycling and "road tax" (LOL! - you finally admitted it), and a complete disregard for the cyclists and cycling. You're on a winner!
The other way of looking at it is that you protest too much and arrogantly claim to know everything needed to be known to make the streets a safer place for everyone while using factually incorrect and rant-style arguments.
Here's a thought - why don't you just be more respectful to others? Some individuals may be arses, irrespective of their mode of transport, but I certainly don't tar every motorcyclist with the words I used in my original post above to describe your vlog. But that is essentially what you are doing.
Let me ask a few questions:
a) why might a cyclist choose not to ride on the edge of the road?
b) have you ever thought about defensive aggressive riding style?
c) do cyclists generally get knocked over because i) they ride in the gutter so cars pass them too close, ii) they hit a pothole or water in the gutter and veer into traffic that is overtaking them too close, iii) they are caught in the windrush of a lorry passing them too close thus pulling them into the lorry, iv) they hit broken glass or nails swept into the gutter, suffer a blow out, and lose control, v) they are not seen by a car emerging from a side road because a tree or lamppost obscures them becauyse they are so close to the kerb, vi) because they are further out in the road forcing others to see them and to overtake them safely and at a safe place?
Rhydian
Wannabie Member
Don't worry 08ride, maybe we are the only ones that understand every situation is different, including the people and the mistakes they make. And no one person should be judged based on the fictional social norm of the people around them?
It's not possible that people might only be judging people off the bad experiences they've had with cyclists. Even though there are millions of cyclists who cycle safely everyday, but completely ignored because we don't need to pay attention to cyclists who are not disrupting their travels?
I mean, who really needs empathy, understanding and common sense?
It's not possible that people might only be judging people off the bad experiences they've had with cyclists. Even though there are millions of cyclists who cycle safely everyday, but completely ignored because we don't need to pay attention to cyclists who are not disrupting their travels?
I mean, who really needs empathy, understanding and common sense?
TheGriffiss
Staple My Balls And Call Me Crazy
i think if you check youtube you will endless amounts of footage showing cyclists doing stupid things endangering the lives of the person with the camera or someone near by. Most of these the cyclist seems to think they are invincible and can do what they want. If you do the same thing with bikes you will get someone bombing it down a road stupidly fast or getting their knee down on corners etc etc. All of these are normally only going to endanger them because where they are able to do these things where theres not as many people around or because they are going to crash off the road into a hedge or something.
A general reason do do something erratic such as lorrys passing by causing windrush, random cars pulling out, blowouts etc are genuine reasons. You cannot control it. THAT is not what i am complaining about. The fact that they have hit glass/pot holes/anything in the gutter or something close to the kerb, YOU ARE DOING 15MPH MAX, slow down if you see something and check to see if ok to pull out. You should see it ages before you reach it and no traffic sits in the gutter blocking your view of the road/cycle lane.
You would think if your a cyclists and the vehicle behind you is clearly being aggressive and you feel threatened, that you would make the effort and get out the way. But NOOOOOOO clearly that is too sensible. If ive got some bellend driver behind me being aggressive, i will overtake the car infront thus 'getting out of his way'
oh and sarcasm is the lowest form of whit and i work for the government
not the council, these are not answers, just points of view and experiences. and i assume now that every time a cyclist is being a dick in front of you, you will not do anything, say anything, just to prove to yourself that i am wrong. Good Arguement for your cause though.
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TheGriffiss
Staple My Balls And Call Me Crazy
ha
haha your my new hero ive even subbed to you. and just because i work for the government doesnt mean i work in the government. Luckily for me i understood all your acronyms
haha your my new hero ive even subbed to you. and just because i work for the government doesnt mean i work in the government. Luckily for me i understood all your acronyms
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O8ride
O8
Now I have no idea what "work for the Government but not in the Government" means. Maybe you work for someone else but it is just a contract with a civil service department? Thanks for the sub, btw, I need all that I can get.
Anyhow, I was thinking about this thread on my ride back home tonight. I think it may be a generational thing.
When I was growing up, 70s and early 80s, cars were for your dad. From the age of 6 onwards, we were out all the time (forced out by mother!), having fun with our mates, and our only two ways of getting around were legs or bicycles. Freedom. We didn't have computers, facebook, twitter, vlogging, xbox or anything that would make us want to stay at home - we had to and wanted to be out.
And that's how we learnt to ride, and that's why I have no issue with anyone on two or four wheels as a whole. Yes there are idiots, but we all make mistakes at times too.
But now? Many kids (not all, maybe not even a majority) won't go out of the house unless someone drives them - or their parents never let them out on their own. Spend all your time in a car and all you hear are your mum's or dad's ravings about how annoying cyclists / others are; spend all your time watching youtuber cyclists who revel in causing problems; and soon you don't even realise you've been indoctrinated.
I feel lucky that I know how to handle most modes of transport, I know the pitfalls of each, I even considered myself extremely proficient on a bike as a youngster - I could wheelie for the length of the whole street, and 180 degree skids round objects were taken at full pelt and under total control (most of the time, lol). Can't do any of that now though.
I know the pitfalls of riding in the gutter with cars and buses and lorries overtaking too close from having had a paper-round 6 mornings a week from the age of 10 to 16. I know that in the snow a car may sound like it's 50 yards away but it's actually right on your tail. And I know you're invisible without lights.
Maybe it's just different now. Too many cars, too many people who have had to pay to get lessons to be allowed to use motorised transport that believe others don't have the right to be on the road, and don't have the right to demand others take care and attention when negotiating them. The tests and learning are there to ensure you understood how to negotiate and react to little things, as well as big things.
As I say, maybe it is a generational thing and I just have to get used to those opinions
Anyhow, I was thinking about this thread on my ride back home tonight. I think it may be a generational thing.
When I was growing up, 70s and early 80s, cars were for your dad. From the age of 6 onwards, we were out all the time (forced out by mother!), having fun with our mates, and our only two ways of getting around were legs or bicycles. Freedom. We didn't have computers, facebook, twitter, vlogging, xbox or anything that would make us want to stay at home - we had to and wanted to be out.
And that's how we learnt to ride, and that's why I have no issue with anyone on two or four wheels as a whole. Yes there are idiots, but we all make mistakes at times too.
But now? Many kids (not all, maybe not even a majority) won't go out of the house unless someone drives them - or their parents never let them out on their own. Spend all your time in a car and all you hear are your mum's or dad's ravings about how annoying cyclists / others are; spend all your time watching youtuber cyclists who revel in causing problems; and soon you don't even realise you've been indoctrinated.
I feel lucky that I know how to handle most modes of transport, I know the pitfalls of each, I even considered myself extremely proficient on a bike as a youngster - I could wheelie for the length of the whole street, and 180 degree skids round objects were taken at full pelt and under total control (most of the time, lol). Can't do any of that now though.
I know the pitfalls of riding in the gutter with cars and buses and lorries overtaking too close from having had a paper-round 6 mornings a week from the age of 10 to 16. I know that in the snow a car may sound like it's 50 yards away but it's actually right on your tail. And I know you're invisible without lights.
Maybe it's just different now. Too many cars, too many people who have had to pay to get lessons to be allowed to use motorised transport that believe others don't have the right to be on the road, and don't have the right to demand others take care and attention when negotiating them. The tests and learning are there to ensure you understood how to negotiate and react to little things, as well as big things.
As I say, maybe it is a generational thing and I just have to get used to those opinions
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