Squids and so on

[juicyjuice]

weve strayed quite a bit from the original topic i think haha, but as for this one i personally would never ride anything on road or off without gloves and helmet, but as for jacket and pants i dont usually wear them i always cover my skin, ive yet to see anything in either i would think will help with anything like a car hitting you or you high siding into the woods on a turn, i completely respect people who wear alot of gear, im just very uncomfortable in leather at all and the only jacket i own at all is a riding jacket, i wear hoodies during the coldest winters in NY because i feel very restricted in any jacket, i do however wear my jacket if im going on an actual RIDE and not to work or the store, but back to the original topic it still gives noone the right to call someone names or badmouth them for not wearing jacket - riding pants - or gloves just my opinion

 

[ShadowBoxer]

That's one way of looking at it.
However rather than throwing up your arms and giving up, and not giving education & training a chance, what should be happening to address you concerns is more PRE-ride education and training. Find out if these people are smart enough and responsible enough to ride with education, training and much more sophisticated tests and exams BEFORE they get on the road. I've had a fantasy of becoming the Governor of California and one thing I would do is make the driving test the hardest in the world. You would have to actually REALLY know what you are doing before getting a license. From what I've seen out there, that's not the case right now.

And for the record, the exhaust coming out of our vehicles is about 10x more toxic than cigarette smoke (cigar even less so. It's just burning leaves, no chemicals). I've seen the numbers. And humans have been smoking for thousands of years.
You don't get cancer from smoke: That's absurd and ridiculous. Earth has been burning leaves for millions if not trillions of years. Smoke is okay. We even eat it! Yumm! You want to ban smoking in public parks? Fine. No more Bar-B-Que. As a matter of fact, No more cooking. No more fireplaces. And no more internal combustion engines like your car or our bikes. You get cancer and other problems (obesity, road rash, liver damage, etc.) from Excess. A little here and there is fine. A little is medicine. A glass of wine for example. A smoke or two after work? Fine. 20 cigs a day (one pack)? Not great. What would happen if we ate 20 hamburgers or 20 bowls of ice cream a day? Problems right? That's excessive. Moderation is normal and what you are supposed to be doing if you choose to do it. People abuse things and then wonder why they are having problems. However that's another thread if not another forum entirely.
Although, back on topic, I will say that you could say that SQUIDing is sort of excess carelessness or irresponsibility.

In general I feel that 'They' just want you to willingly give up your rights and freedoms for a little "security". And they are happy to not explain, not train and even misinform to get you to do that. That is essentially how I see what you are saying.
Historically, not a good idea.

What do you think is more civilized:
A society with fewer laws were people know how to drive, ride and figure out things for themselves in general? Treat others as you wish to be treated is the main rule.
A society with more laws were people don't really know what they are doing and simply rely on rules and the government to tell them what they can and can't do? They are no longer bothered with the burden of figuring things out for themselves.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

I agree JuicyJuice, no one has the right to call someone else names and I think they do because they take other peoples actions and choices personally.
One way or another they think others choices relates to them. Kind of like an assumption.

On the road we should never assume we know what the other vehicles are going to do or why. But people do anyway.
We all leave home, no matter how we are dressed, assuming that we will return safely. Most of the time it's true.

 

[Trinith]

not giving education & training a chance

Not once did I ever say anything of the sort. I love the idea of graduated licensing, proper education, and the notion of forcing everyone to ride a bike (motorized, be it moped, scooter, motorcycle..) of some sort for a few years before allowing them to drive a car.

You don't get cancer from smoke: That's absurd and ridiculous. Earth has been burning leaves for millions if not trillions of years. Smoke is okay.

I'm out. You've passed from decent conversation to blatant stupidity imo. You're out of your mind if you think cigarrette smoke is ok, or that 'it's just leaves.' BTW - Cigars aren't just leaves. There are chemicals in quite a few of them, namely in the form of flavoring. If you didn't realize that when I said "smoking" I pretty specifically meant "cigarrette smoking" then I cannot help you. Smoking bans are clearly not anti-BBQ. That's just ridiculous.

 

[RoninK6]

What do you think is more civilized:
A society with fewer laws were people know how to drive, ride and figure out things for themselves in general? Treat others as you wish to be treated is the main rule.
A society with more laws were people don't really know what they are doing and simply rely on rules and the government to tell them what they can and can't do? They are no longer bothered with the burden of figuring things out for themselves.

A society with more laws. How one should be treated differs from one-another.

Anyways, back on topic.....

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Hi, Trinith,

Yup. I agree. That's your opinion.
Some smoke is okay but other smoke is not okay... that makes sense.
OR simply WHATEVER in moderation is okay. Even the highly toxic smoke coming out of our vehicles. For some reason there is no ban on that smoke...
Generally the simpler answer is true. Maybe you don't agree with that either? If you don't understand the concept of moderation then I understand why you feel the way you do.

Thank goodness you already ride a motorcycle. Otherwise you'd be arguing that they are instant death. No protection = instant death. "How about not so fast, boss? Isn't there some kind of middle ground?" Nope. People have died falling out of bed therefore all speeds are potentially dangerous and should be illegal. As a matter of fact, A LOT OF PEOPLE have died in their bed... perhaps we should make beds illegal while we're at it!

Also it's very difficult to discuss anything with a fanatic who refuses to listen to reason.
You want me to expand on what's obvious in your post but refuse to accept anything new or in a new way. You don't even attempt to see my point of view. Instead you polarize out of proportion and take things out of context.
You want to argue rather than discuss, you close your mind to anything that's not already in there. What's the point?

I believe that more education & training would make a significant difference and people would make smarter and less costly choices. As I recall you said it would not be enough. IF you could think of a way it would work, like graduated licensing (not sure what you mean, but it sounds good) then you should have contributed that in the first place, a few posts back rather than defending having your (our) choices being stripped away.
Maybe I'm just too much of an optimist. Too much faith in humanity. That's fine.
Ride safe. Good luck.
Bye.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

A society with more laws. How one should be treated differs from one-another.

Anyways, back on topic.....

Interesting...

 

[johl]

In a society where it is more acceptable to blame someone/something rather than owning up to a mistake you cannot expect people to think for themselves.

I live in a country where there is free healthcare and helmets are a legal requirement, but I wouldn't mind paying an excess on my registration costs to cover the greater risk of injury from riding a motorbike. I think as an incentive to wear appropriate riding gear this excess could consist of different tiers.

For example tier 1- most expensive- open face helmet only
Tier2- enclosed helmet
Tier 3- helmet plus atleast one other item.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Hi Johl,

I agree, owning up to a mistake is taking responsibility and that is closely related to thinking for oneself, or taking personal responsibility. Society must be upgraded and/or held to a higher standard. Not accepting responsibility for ones own mistakes and then blaming others (Well it's because, They made me do it, If he hadn't... etc.) should be reclassified as LoserTalk and scorned not rewarded because one is an over-dramatic moron (Reality TV).

Forgive me if I got that wrong though, I haven't updated my brain's OS since about 1999 (haven't watch TV since) so I've avoided all the newest stupid programing.

Something like what you suggest could work. I would say just start off with Tier 0 = You don't have to wear anything, but it's the most expensive as a form of public insurance in the event of an accident.
Not sure how one could guarrantee people would wear whatever all the time.
The last few days it's been quite hot here. I rode a bit tonight (still warm) and did not wear my normal over-pants and left my jacket open. It's just too fucking hot! For me. I personally don't like extra hot. I prefer cooler temps.

I appreciate your comment.

 

[Bloc]

I really just don't care what other people ride in. Where I live, in the middle of summer, we hit around 110 F and you constantly see riders in flip flips, tank tops, and shorts. I always wear gloves and a jacket no matter what the conditions (on top of my helmet, of course). Some would consider me squidding but I guess it's just a personal opinion on what defines it.

 

[SlickR6]

I try not to judge other riders too much, if they want to take the risk then thats on them, I will be wearing gear, its the only reason im able to ride today and im sure its the same for many other people.

 

[O8ride]

Excess. Now I'm depressed. Family pack of Minstrels about to disappear