Why You're Getting Wind Noise ...

SalvageSV

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Feb 18, 2016
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Birmingham, AL
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The problem with the Sena mics is that they're tuned for voice at the expense of all other frequencies. This can make your engine too quiet for some people.
This isn't true. The mic isn't tuned for vocal frequencies from what I can tell. The processing in the Sena unit itself uses EQ and noise cancellation to clean up the vocals. If you use the mic alone directly inro a camera or other recorder it pics up the bike just fine.
 

SalvageSV

Hopes he doesn't crash this month
Feb 18, 2016
643
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Birmingham, AL
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Well shoot, I learned something new today. Totally different from my studio mic noise and breathing issues when I record my gaming videos. Got that all figured out and tried to apply it to my helmet mic and NOPE haha. I'll be getting a Sena next weekend, maybe I'll see if they sell just the mics for it while I'm at it!
Most Sena units come with mic options, so you should have a spare. But the 20S is the only one that I know for sure has the 2.5mm adapter. Others have a proprietary 2 pin connector. You can use any of them but you might have to solder on a 3.5mm plug like I did.

And yeah, recording in a controlled environment is much different. I'm used to ribbon mics with shock mounts and pop filters in isolated VO booths. It's so much different out on the road.
 

ShiftHer

Wannabie Member
Nov 14, 2015
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Yamaha FZ-07
Most Sena units come with mic options, so you should have a spare. But the 20S is the only one that I know for sure has the 2.5mm adapter. Others have a proprietary 2 pin connector. You can use any of them but you might have to solder on a 3.5mm plug like I did.

Great info! Now I have questions! :D

So, if I get the 20S wired mic (which seems to be out of stock everywhere, did you guys buy them all up already?? lol), I would need a 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter cable. I'm looking at those, and apparently there are some that do not allow microphone functionality and some that do. So, I'm a bit confused on what to get.

Would either of these work?
Assuming one of those will work, I would then be okay just getting any old 3.5mm extension cable to run down to my phone/camera/whatever I end up using to record? Or would that need to be a special microphone version, as well?

I do have a spare SMH10R wired mic... I'm not opposed to soldering, but I have no idea what to solder. :D
 

SalvageSV

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Feb 18, 2016
643
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Great info! Now I have questions! :D

So, if I get the 20S wired mic (which seems to be out of stock everywhere, did you guys buy them all up already?? lol), I would need a 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter cable. I'm looking at those, and apparently there are some that do not allow microphone functionality and some that do. So, I'm a bit confused on what to get.

Would either of these work?
Assuming one of those will work, I would then be okay just getting any old 3.5mm extension cable to run down to my phone/camera/whatever I end up using to record? Or would that need to be a special microphone version, as well?

I do have a spare SMH10R wired mic... I'm not opposed to soldering, but I have no idea what to solder. :D
Don't get one for a phone headset that includes headphone connection. Get something like this:http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017CBSBGE/?tag=yoursiteranke-21

A mono plug has the signal at the tip and the ground on the large shaft below the single black strip. A stereo adapter will also work. It will have two black strips. Signal are on the tip and middle areas and ground at the bottom. You gave issues with the headphone adapters because when adding the fourth section the ground connection point used for a mono/stereo plug can vary, possibly breaking the ground connection when you introduce that fourth section.

Your existing mic is a standard mono mic. I believe there is only one wire and a bare shield wire in the cable coming from it. The bare wire is ground and the single colored wire is the signal.

You can hack up a 3.5mm cable to solder to it. You can even wire it dual mono if you have a stereo cable to use. Send the signal to the tip (mono) or the tip and middle (dual mono/stereo) and the bare ground to the base/lower area. Use a multimeter to check continuity on the donor cable to verify wire colors.

And yes, once you adapt or solder a 3.5mm mono/stereo tip, you can use a standard audio extension to run it wherever.
 
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SalvageSV

Hopes he doesn't crash this month
Feb 18, 2016
643
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I actually made a video when I soldered mine up. I never posted it because I lost some footage of the wiring of the GoPro adapter part. But the Sena mic wiring is good to go. Just need to render and post.

@Lurch, permission to post said video here for reference?
 
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ShiftHer

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Nov 14, 2015
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Awesome, thanks for the info! Recently got a new helmet and want to pop the Drift Stealth 2 on there, but of course no mic input on that. So this would be an excellent work around.
 

RagingR6

Angry R6 Rider
May 5, 2016
22
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1
Southern California
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Wait so if I get that adapter I can plug the 20s mic into that and then the adapter into the GoPro mic adapter and it will work? Will it be in stereo or?
 

SalvageSV

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Feb 18, 2016
643
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Wait so if I get that adapter I can plug the 20s mic into that and then the adapter into the GoPro mic adapter and it will work? Will it be in stereo or?
The mic is mono so it would be left channel only. You can duplicate it in post for dual mono. But yes. It's just a mic. It will work with a GoPro.
 

RoadSprock

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Mar 7, 2016
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is there any 'fixes' you suggest for the lav microphones @MattW? Things that would reduce wind/ positioning etc, as scared of what @Lurch said about the possibility of losing engine noise.
 

SalvageSV

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Feb 18, 2016
643
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Birmingham, AL
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Salvaged SV1000S
is there any 'fixes' you suggest for the lav microphones @MattW? Things that would reduce wind/ positioning etc, as scared of what @Lurch said about the possibility of losing engine noise.
Maybe try to heat some plastic, like the top of a soda bottle, shape it and hot glue/tape it around the mic like a cone. You could maybe even try some different shapes with a temp solution like masking tape. Get a chin curtain if you don't have one.
 

RoadSprock

Original Vlogs
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Maybe try to heat some plastic, like the top of a soda bottle, shape it and hot glue/tape it around the mic like a cone. You could maybe even try some different shapes with a temp solution like masking tape. Get a chin curtain if you don't have one.

What's the best angle to shape it too, around the length of the lav or to the top?
 

SalvageSV

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Feb 18, 2016
643
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For a standard lav you are mainly concerned about the tip. A cone maybe 1/2" around at the tip and about 1/4" longer than the lav should help. Taper it toward the base. This is assuming the wind is coming from behind the mic. If it's whipping around the front it won't help much.

You could also consider pitting the mic in something solid with the tip are open and facing you. Like a rubber bounce ball maybe with a hole drilled through it. Just a random idea. You just need to block wind from the sides and tip and leave the tip open and facing you.
 

RangerRide

RangerRides
Apr 25, 2016
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So I've seen post after post about wind noise, so I figured I'd just share all of my info in one place. As I've mentioned before, I'm a video professional and have worked with video and audio for around 15 years at this point.

In pretty much every case I've seen, the wind noise that motovloggers experience is caused by poor microphone choice.

Yes, I know we don't have many options so people get the usual lav/lapel mic and shove it behind a cheek pad or cover it in fur. But my statement is fact. Lav mics aren't meant for motovlogs.

Lav mics are designed to be clipped to a shirt/jacket and pick up a person speaking in a controlled environment from about 6" to 12" from their mouth. And motovloggers take this same mic and run it down the highway at 65 mph and expect it to pick up clean audio.

Let me explain why a lav mic is generally bad for this purpose, and why the foam you stuck on it is only minimally effective.

First, lets begin with a basic understanding of pickup pattern ...

View attachment 1776

Lavaliere mics are generally cardioid or omnidirectional microphones. The image above shows a cross section of the "on mic" area of each ... or where you get clean, natural-sounding audio. Imagine the images in 3D, where the center of a graph is the tip of the mic and the pattern shown rotates all the way around it.

As you can see, the omnidirectional pattern will pickup audio from any direction and the cardioid is focused on the 180* directly in front of the mic. This is great for a lav becasue when the speaker turns their head the dynamic range of the audio is maintained.

So, with that explained, let's look at the actual mic options ...

View attachment 1777

This is a standard form factor for a lav mic. Looking closely you can see open areas for sound waves to pass through uninterrupted on the tip and also on the sides. While great for a presentation, when you put this thing in 60 mph winds, those areas catch the air and if they don't direct wind directly into the mic itself, they create turbulent vortices right beside it that's picked up in your recording. Even if the mic is pointed right at your mouth with the wind behind it, the air will still catch on the sides and wrap around the tip and be picked up.

And then there is this kind of mic ...

View attachment 1778

This choice is even worse with dual microphones exposed in all directions. There is literally no direction to face this thing that would begin to shield the mics from wind.

So, why can't you just put foam or fur on it and fix the problem? Because that's not what the foam is designed for.

Mic windscreens are designed to stop a stray breeze or breath from hitting the mic directly. When you increase that to 60 mph there is so much velocity it will make it's way to the mic through any "standard" foam. Even professional shotgun mics with foam and fur will pick up a decent breeze on location.

You can get a super dense foam that could possibly stop the wind at speed, but you will do that at the expense of audio quality and volume.

Volume is a notable problem becasue the cameras we use are generally auto gain controlled, meaning that they constantly ride the input level to average a certain dB. When you make the mic less sensitive with dense foam, the gain is increased introducing signal noise and likely still picking up the wind that you are trying to get rid of, but more of a dull roar than the sharp hiss you're used to.

The same goes for fur. It's designed to stop low velocity wind and works better than foam as it's more irregular. But it won't stop noise from wind hitting the mic directly.

So, how do you fix it?

You get the mic out of the wind.

You can have some luck tucking the mic behind a cheek pad, and if successful you'll hear yourself, but you'll likely have a lot of high frequencies cut out and your voice will sound deep and boomy. Maybe you're cool with that. Personally, I'd rather have my own clear voice.

To do that you need to keep the mic itself close to your mouth, unimpeded by dense layers of foam ... and you need it out of the wind.

So, you divert the wind. That's the best option. You can do this in several ways. If you have a full face helmet with ways to block wind in the mouth area, put the mic there and face it toward you. Close the front vent. If this isn't working it's likely that there are vortices swirling in that open space coming in from under the helmet and there is still indirect wind hitting the mic.

So, you can create a physical barrier of some type to shield the mic from the wind that's still there. A small piece of plastic glued behind/around the mic will work fine for this. It should be a decent distance away from the mic in case it's creating it's own vortices which could be picked up.

Personally, I've been suggesting the Sena 20s mics to people with issues. I use a Sena wired mic from a SMH10R that I had to custom wire. The 20s versions are the same mics but have a 2.5mm plug that can be easily adapted to the common 3.5mm plug needed for action cameras.

I recommend these mics becasue they are engineered to reduce wind noise in our specific application.

View attachment 1779

Look at the design of the Sena boom mic. Notice the small opening and large plastic shield with tapered edges. This is engineered to divert wind coming directly at the back of the mic around it. And it does so far enough away as to not let any created vortices reenter the mic's pickup area. The tapering on the edge reduces the turbulence created as the wind is diverted.

This mic can capture clean audio at speed from an open face helmet. Sure, Sena uses advanced noise cancelling technology, but they can only apply that to the audio that's captured. With only one mic, you have to kill the wind noise to effectively clean up the voice because you don't have a secondary audio stream to compare to and remove the unwanted frequencies.

And yes, the Sena mics come with foam windscreens. These are no different than the same ones I've said don't work for other mics. In the case of the Sena application, they are there to reduce noise coming directly toward the front of the mic, like breath or a crosswind when you turn your head. If you look hard over your shoulder, the Sena mic will still pick up wind noise with the shift in direction.

So, all that to say that while foam and fur and position can help, the only way to actually cure the wind noise issue without sounding like you're speaking from another room is to divert the wind around the mic. And there are mics out there specifically designed to do this. Maybe don't reinvent the wheel and spend $25 on a mic designed for the job. It's worth it.
exactly ! someone who put my thoughts into words
 
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SalvageSV

Hopes he doesn't crash this month
Feb 18, 2016
643
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Birmingham, AL
I ride a
Salvaged SV1000S
Here is the video I mentioned earlier showing how to wire a Sena SMH10R mic to a 3.5mm plug to use with a camera or audio recorder. It also includes the method to wire in dual mono and how to use a multimeter to verify wire colors on your donor cable. This is the mic I use for my motovlogs, so feel free to check them out for a sample of the frequency range and wind noise.


@Lurch , if you think it would help, feel free to edit the OP to include the video.
 

SammyT

Wannabie Member
May 11, 2016
28
5
8
32
Portsmouth
I ride a
ZX6R
Can anyone recommend a mic that would fit into the 1080p Drift HD other than the standard one?
 

SalvageSV

Hopes he doesn't crash this month
Feb 18, 2016
643
278
43
Birmingham, AL
I ride a
Salvaged SV1000S
Can anyone recommend a mic that would fit into the 1080p Drift HD other than the standard one?
A quick search says that the mic plug is a 2.5mm, and the mic I saw from Drift has a stereo connector. So, if it is a 2.5mm, the Sena 20S mic, or any other 2.5mm mic would work with no modification. there is a chance that they have a weird wiring scheme with a mono mic connected to the right channel of the connector that would make a standard mono mic not work, but I'd doubt it. Either way, you could custom wire any mic to a 2.5mm connector (per the video) and get it to work.

I learned today that there are other bluetooth units that come with 2.5mm mics. @Skarcrow has one and the wired mic looked to be great quality. I don't know if you could order a standalone mic from them though. @Skarcrow, could you post up which bluetooth unit you have?
 

Lurch

Administrator
May 5, 2014
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2016 Street Triple R and a 1999 Honda NT650V Deauville
Drift is mono, but the adaptors that came with the later Ghosts may have a stereo connector, but are definitely mono.
 

SalvageSV

Hopes he doesn't crash this month
Feb 18, 2016
643
278
43
Birmingham, AL
I ride a
Salvaged SV1000S
Drift is mono, but the adaptors that came with the later Ghosts may have a stereo connector, but are definitely mono.
Yeah, I assumed that the mic was mono, but it has a stereo plug on it. I'd have to look at the female connector on the Drift to see which piece carries the signal, but mono items usually have the signal at the tip.
 

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