Insta360, F9-style

[TallADVer]

Leave it to Ryan to take 360 motovlogging to the extreme:

Yeah, some of the wide views were over-the-top, but I was really impressed how many solid angles he was able to get in that single take. Now I have to go buy myself one (the Insta360, not the Kawi...)

 

[Hippo-Drones]

I found most of the angles and over-reaching of the cameras capabilities an advert for how not to do it TBH, but used right, the 360 cameras are a great addition to a motovloggers kit.
Just remember, one take does not mean the footage used was recorded at the same time as the audio, and would have been heavily edited to get a concise video.
It is a shame that his videos are becoming more about the 360 camera advert than the actual topic of the video, I still love Ryan's content, so not hating on him or his channel, just wish it was a little less advert.

 

[Drakhen99]

OK, I'm gonna try to break this one down...

At 2:02 there's a cut to a 2nd take. You can tell because there was no front 360 camera in the intro. Unless it was a chase bike.
At 2:10, same thing - right side camera angle. Then a rear view.
At about 2:30, there's a shot of the front side plastics, another camera that isn't in the pic and isn't available at that resolution and clarity to the 360 cams. Could've been a chase vehicle.
At 7:30, we see another riding section, recorded obviously at a different time and place.

He used some weird wide angles from the 360 camera. Not a fan. And I LOVE 360 footage, usually. For a short? Great. For long-form video? Not so much, IMO.

So, I think he did hte same ride several times with the camera mounted in different spots. I'm glad the camera didn't fall - I wouldn't trust it the way he mounted it [needs a 2nd mounting point].

Having the ad part at the end was fine, but the constant 360 footage didn't ADD to the video, it distracted from his normal production quality, IMO.

This is just my semi-educated guesswork and opinion.

-John

 

[TallADVer]

I found most of the angles and over=reaching of the cameras capabilities an advert for how not to do it TBH, but used right, the 360 cameras are a great addition to a motovloggers kit.

Agreed, I've never liked super-wide angle shots like that "sphere" view, and having a 360 on the helmet just seems excessive. I got that some of those shots were meant for humor, but they were jarring.

 

[TallADVer]

OK, I'm gonna try to break this one down...

At 2:02 there's a cut to a 2nd take. You can tell because there was no front 360 camera in the intro. Unless it was a chase bike.
At 2:10, same thing - right side camera angle. Then a rear view.
At about 2:30, there's a shot of the front side plastics, another camera that isn't in the pic and isn't available at that resolution and clarity to the 360 cams. Could've been a chase vehicle.
At 7:30, we see another riding section, recorded obviously at a different time and place.

He used some weird wide angles from the 360 camera. Not a fan. And I LOVE 360 footage, usually. For a short? Great. For long-form video? Not so much, IMO.

So, I think he did hte same ride several times with the camera mounted in different spots. I'm glad the camera didn't fall - I wouldn't trust it the way he mounted it [needs a 2nd mounting point].

Having the ad part at the end was fine, but the constant 360 footage didn't ADD to the video, it distracted from his normal production quality, IMO.

This is just my semi-educated guesswork and opinion.

-John

All that would have been fine if it weren't for the "single shot' claim during the ad at the end. I'll have to give it another watch, but I trust your editor's eye.

I guess fancy 360 cameras are like any artistic tool: great when they serve the narrative, but easy to abuse when they call attention to themselves.

 

[Hippo-Drones]

All that would have been fine if it weren't for the "single shot' claim during the ad at the end. I'll have to give it another watch, but I trust your editor's eye.

I guess fancy 360 cameras are like any artistic tool: great when they serve the narrative, but easy to abuse when they call attention to themselves.

It could still be a "single" shot, as in they didn't turn the camera off and kept it rolling, but they definitely edited the footage and had separate audio feed

 

[Drakhen99]

All that would have been fine if it weren't for the "single shot' claim during the ad at the end. I'll have to give it another watch, but I trust your editor's eye.

I guess fancy 360 cameras are like any artistic tool: great when they serve the narrative, but easy to abuse when they call attention to themselves.

Precisely. I admit that sometimes the allure of the 360 gets to me while editing, and I end up using more of that footage than is probably necessary. I have a video coming out soon where I went for a night ride, and the 360 footage was some of the best of the 3 cameras I was running that night, so I used more of it than I usually do - and the tiny planet look was neat when paired with the lights from buildings and stuff. Sorry, not sorry

-John

 

[R-Rated]

Let me start by saying I support and encourage new and small creators. F9 crew is neither so now I can go on with laying out the critique. I have read and re-read this thread, skimmed the video, and thought about it.

AND . . .

First the definition of "one take" -

The end of the video talks about how the mounting makes it possible to film the entire bike in one take. So either A he did not stop the camera to move it or B he is stretching the truth.

To explore which look at the lighting and the shots in their distance from the bike. Lighting does shift in length from shot to shot showing passage of time and this will come up in a minute. But the distance from the bike shots is telling due to physics when it comes to leverage. Longer means more force at the mount and more movement at the far end. So that questions the shots from in front of the bike. Also that roll on throttle tske off from the side where the camera is still focus on the same relative fixed point while maintaining the same rate of speed regardless of the bike is suspect.

Back to passage of time. We can rule out he had the camera plugged in much based on all the fiddling about where the camera was mounted on different points. So the battery life on the camera must be huge or he is super fast mounting, adjusting, and getting moving again. Both very doubtful.

With just a quick search for battery life it looks like 81 minutes is all it has. Seems like a long time until you think 5 minutes mounting each time a couple minute to get rolling, a few minutes here and there lost to burping, sneezing, coughing, tongue tying, and all the other fun stuff a human body does. So realistically he might have had 30 minutes tops of useable footage.

Is it possible to shoot a true one take video in 30 minutes? Yes. Is it likely he did? Not in the least. Physics, nature, what it is really like to ride a motorcycle with wind/bumps/etc., constraints of linear timen and Murhpy's law all question the credibility of his statement of how the mounting system made it possible to film the entire bike in one take because if he cut just one split second then it is no different than a director calling cut for a reshoot to stop a camera.

I do not think the F-9 production will lose like a small channel just because some call into question their sincerity.

 

[Drakhen99]

Let me start by saying I support and encourage new and small creators. F9 crew is neither so now I can go on with laying out the critique. I have read and re-read this thread, skimmed the video, and thought about it.

AND . . .
View attachment 6782

First the definition of "one take" -
View attachment 6783

The end of the video talks about how the mounting makes it possible to film the entire bike in one take. So either A he did not stop the camera to move it or B he is stretching the truth.

To explore which look at the lighting and the shots in their distance from the bike. Lighting does shift in length from shot to shot showing passage of time and this will come up in a minute. But the distance from the bike shots is telling due to physics when it comes to leverage. Longer means more force at the mount and more movement at the far end. So that questions the shots from in front of the bike. Also that roll on throttle tske off from the side where the camera is still focus on the same relative fixed point while maintaining the same rate of speed regardless of the bike is suspect.

Back to passage of time. We can rule out he had the camera plugged in much based on all the fiddling about where the camera was mounted on different points. So the battery life on the camera must be huge or he is super fast mounting, adjusting, and getting moving again. Both very doubtful.

With just a quick search for battery life it looks like 81 minutes is all it has. Seems like a long time until you think 5 minutes mounting each time a couple minute to get rolling, a few minutes here and there lost to burping, sneezing, coughing, tongue tying, and all the other fun stuff a human body does. So realistically he might have had 30 minutes tops of useable footage.

Is it possible to shoot a true one take video in 30 minutes? Yes. Is it likely he did? Not in the least. Physics, nature, what it is really like to ride a motorcycle with wind/bumps/etc., constraints of linear timen and Murhpy's law all question the credibility of his statement of how the mounting system made it possible to film the entire bike in one take because if he cut just one split second then it is no different than a director calling cut for a reshoot to stop a camera.

I do not think the F-9 production will lose like a small channel just because some call into question their sincerity.

I like your breakdown. A lot. The only hole I can see is IF, and it's a big IF... he filmed the same 2 miles like 5 times to get all the shots. If you plan our your mounts, it can take less than 2 minutes to perform the move from one place to another. I know this from recent experience where I had 4 mounts I'd used prior, except for one, which was just on the opposite side, so it was just mirrored.

2 minutes per change = 8 minutes.
Riding the same 4-mile stretch out and back, 5 times, is 20 miles, so at a conservative 30mph avg speed, 40 mins.

That's only 48 minutes, well within the limits.

The telling factor is that I have been told by several Insta360 camera owners that there is a gap between the 8-minute-long files. So, I surmise he ran the same loop 5 times, each with a separate recording, and under 8 minutes. Doable on one battery, but certainly not in one take. He also uses a voice recorder, IIRC, so he spliced that footage together.

Still 50% BS.

-John

 

[R-Rated]

I like your breakdown. A lot. The only hole I can see is IF, and it's a big IF... he filmed the same 2 miles like 5 times to get all the shots. If you plan our your mounts, it can take less than 2 minutes to perform the move from one place to another. I know this from recent experience where I had 4 mounts I'd used prior, except for one, which was just on the opposite side, so it was just mirrored.

2 minutes per change = 8 minutes.
Riding the same 4-mile stretch out and back, 5 times, is 20 miles, so at a conservative 30mph avg speed, 40 mins.

That's only 48 minutes, well within the limits.

The telling factor is that I have been told by several Insta360 camera owners that there is a gap between the 8-minute-long files. So, I surmise he ran the same loop 5 times, each with a separate recording, and under 8 minutes. Doable on one battery, but certainly not in one take. He also uses a voice recorder, IIRC, so he spliced that footage together.

Still 50% BS.

-John

Riding 4 miles 5 times really does not make for a good feel or review of the true nature of a motorcycle.

Another check for the BS scoreboard.

Also, anyone else The Turd Wolf attacked the attachments in my post?

 

[Drakhen99]

Riding 4 miles 5 times really does not make for a good feel or review of the true nature of a motorcycle.

Another check for the BS scoreboard.

Also, anyone else The Turd Wolf attacked the attachments in my post?

LOL, I saw that. Forums gonna forum.

And yeah, BS still holds. I assumed he rode the bike before filming, to get a feel for it.

-John

 

[R-Rated]

LOL, I saw that. Forums gonna forum.

And yeah, BS still holds. I assumed he rode the bike before filming, to get a feel for it.

-John

I bet it was the usual press release thing or like that where the manufacturer says you only have X amount of time with the bike. Again another mark against.

Similar happened to @scooterwuf and @LoneWolfer demoing the LiveWire Del Mar - preproduction bikes were under tight time control but they still got to film.

 

[Hippo-Drones]

The Insta360 has 30min file sizes for 360 footage, and regarding riding the same stretch of road multiple times, it makes no odds really to the feel or true nature of the motorcycle, the reviewer (Ryan) is only using the footage as a platform to say his words, I'm sure he would have ridden the bike a little further off camera.

 

[PhilTonic]

The camera mounted to the bike is mounted in loads of different positions.

Beginning at the lay by at the left side, cut, next at the rear (unless it's another camera on a tripod) with the camera on the left gone. Back to the side when Ryan gets on the bike.

2:02 mounted to the left mirror.
2:09 somewhere near the rear wheel on the right.
2:12 left side again.
2:18 rear again.
2:22 left side front. To be honest this shot and the sprocket shot are probably shot with a different camera or in steadycam mode. On a 360 video this would be WAY zoomed in and therefore blurry.
2:25 left side rear.
2:39 left mirror again.

You would need loads of different runs for this kind of video and keep pacing in each run very similiar and not move around on the bike too much or wave your hands. The cuts don't match up 100% either.

It's hard work to make such a video. Been there myself. I had one camera on the helmet for one clean run for a little stretch of road and next moved the 360 camera to the side of the road in 14 different places to make it look like shots taken from a TV camera. 4 hours of work for 4 minutes of video.

 

[R-Rated]

The camera mounted to the bike is mounted in loads of different positions.

Beginning at the lay by at the left side, cut, next at the rear (unless it's another camera on a tripod) with the camera on the left gone. Back to the side when Ryan gets on the bike.

2:02 mounted to the left mirror.
2:09 somewhere near the rear wheel on the right.
2:12 left side again.
2:18 rear again.
2:22 left side front. To be honest this shot and the sprocket shot are probably shot with a different camera or in steadycam mode. On a 360 video this would be WAY zoomed in and therefore blurry.
2:25 left side rear.
2:39 left mirror again.

You would need loads of different runs for this kind of video and keep pacing in each run very similiar and not move around on the bike too much or wave your hands. The cuts don't match up 100% either.

It's hard work to make such a video. Been there myself. I had one camera on the helmet for one clean run for a little stretch of road and next moved the 360 camera to the side of the road in 14 different places to make it look like shots taken from a TV camera. 4 hours of work for 4 minutes of video.

Great breakdown and points. The amount of time to put in the work takes away from his statement of how the 360 made it possible for all that to be done in one take.

On a side note, one of my pals let me borrow his Grom once. Man what a fun bike!

 

[Drakhen99]

The camera mounted to the bike is mounted in loads of different positions.

Beginning at the lay by at the left side, cut, next at the rear (unless it's another camera on a tripod) with the camera on the left gone. Back to the side when Ryan gets on the bike.

2:02 mounted to the left mirror.
2:09 somewhere near the rear wheel on the right.
2:12 left side again.
2:18 rear again.
2:22 left side front. To be honest this shot and the sprocket shot are probably shot with a different camera or in steadycam mode. On a 360 video this would be WAY zoomed in and therefore blurry.
2:25 left side rear.
2:39 left mirror again.

You would need loads of different runs for this kind of video and keep pacing in each run very similiar and not move around on the bike too much or wave your hands. The cuts don't match up 100% either.

It's hard work to make such a video. Been there myself. I had one camera on the helmet for one clean run for a little stretch of road and next moved the 360 camera to the side of the road in 14 different places to make it look like shots taken from a TV camera. 4 hours of work for 4 minutes of video.

That's a really neat effect. I like how you got sort of a hand-held wobble in the footage. Most people wouldn't see all the work that went into that, but those that do, like us... we get it!

-John