For starting out...

Dnljmrs

Dr Dan
Apr 13, 2020
30
28
18
33
South Wales
www.danielmorse.me.uk
I ride a
Nothing yet! But cbr 600 f in my sights
It's really difficult to balance budget and wants/needs of equipment.. and I'm not there yet in terms of being able to ride or vlog (yet!! bloody lockdown), but I have been doing quite a bit of research in advance.

It looks like the most commonly used cameras are GoPros (anywhere from 4-8 black), but I also know that some people hate them and use others like the ghost.
So my question (for opinions really) is how much emphasis should someone put on having the capability to do 60fps, and do you think that this should be one of the 'absolutely necessary' things when looking at cameras, even to the detriment of other pieces of kit if that would be the case? Or would it be wise to compromise on the fps to 30, while then being able to save some money.

I won't have a 'budget' as such to use, so for me, it'd just be a case of getting what I can for the best price I can, cheapest the better because I'll have to put the money back into savings at some point anyway, and I was toying with the ghost XL (2nd hand are pretty cheap tbf, and not that expensive new even). I have a shark radial helmet which has the sun visor slider on the top (where I would have liked to put the camera) so it'll be side mounted, with a comms unit on the other side (ideally - but choice of those is another question altogether).

Anyway, let me know your thoughts :)
 
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Pooley

Wannabe tractor enthusiast
Nov 19, 2019
258
307
63
Derbyshire
I ride a
2003 Honda Deauville 650
I got a brand new Hero 4 Silver fully loaded with all accessories for 60 odd quid so I would recommend keeping your peepers on places like ebay to find the spicy budget-friendly deals.

In terms of camera performance, I would say 1080@60 frames is a must these days and you can get cheaper branded cameras imitating brands like GoPro really cheap. I compared one a while back and made a video on my channel which ended up being better than my GoPro for a fraction of the cost.

Overall I would say save your pennies for now as rushing into buying hardware might come with it's regrets incase you find better options when you have a bit more cash at hand :)
 

HippoDrone

Admin
Jan 2, 2017
5,259
3,877
113
West Sussex, UK
I ride a
2012 Moto Guzzi V7 Stone
I know a lot of folk stick with 30fps even when using the latest GoPros etc, I use 30fps when doing my offroading videos as I am generally riding slower and also have less light under trees etc. On the road though, IMO 60fps is a must, the stutter of the video at 30fps is very apparent to me as a viewer and it is off putting for me.
 
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Dnljmrs

Dr Dan
Apr 13, 2020
30
28
18
33
South Wales
www.danielmorse.me.uk
I ride a
Nothing yet! But cbr 600 f in my sights
In terms of camera performance, I would say 1080@60 frames is a must these days and you can get cheaper branded cameras imitating brands like GoPro really cheap. I compared one a while back and made a video on my channel which ended up being better than my GoPro for a fraction of the cost.
Is that the git2 vid? I have seen a few reviews of the git and it does seem like a pretty good camera. The profile is another thing to think about, not sure I want a square gopro shaped cheek, whereas a chin mount of that would be better
 
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Dnljmrs

Dr Dan
Apr 13, 2020
30
28
18
33
South Wales
www.danielmorse.me.uk
I ride a
Nothing yet! But cbr 600 f in my sights
Just watched it, and its a good review! The night time was really dark though, and commuting on the motorway, I wonder whether that would be an issue in the winter time. I suppose there may be ways to increase the gain or settings to improve the night time capture if needed

I've used SJ Cam previously, which are 1080 30 but great general quality, this is a few steps up from that as well with the stabilisation which I also really like. I saw some people commented on the loss of wide view, and I can see their point, but...stabilisation! Good shout :)
 
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Pooley

Wannabe tractor enthusiast
Nov 19, 2019
258
307
63
Derbyshire
I ride a
2003 Honda Deauville 650
I know a lot of folk stick with 30fps even when using the latest GoPros etc, I use 30fps when doing my offroading videos
No way! That must be why I never noticed, because you are moving slower :)
Just watched it, and its a good review! The night time was really dark though, and commuting on the motorway, I wonder whether that would be an issue in the winter time. I suppose there may be ways to increase the gain or settings to improve the night time capture if needed
Ah thank you! You can change the ISO settings to help recording in low light, although I thought no research would be a good way to review the thing... /s

Since having a good amount of time to play with the Git since I am really happy with it. It does have a super wide mode which is as good as my GoPro in terms of picture quality and colour, but the stabilisation is reaaally good. It's a hard decision to have either active but like you said... STABILISATION!!

It is a suberb bit of kit for the price and I would agree with the chin mount, although I have a lot of stuff in the way like the fairing and CHiPs-esk windshield so a side mount works better sometimes :)

Keep us posted on this!
 
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WEB

L Plate Member
Feb 14, 2020
230
318
63
32
I ride a
Triumph Thruxton + Harley Lowrider
I vehemently disagree with 60fps. Makes videos look like a jerky mess. 24fps (Well, 25fps if you've got 50Hz electricity) with a proper shutter speed looks much more pleasing to the eye with a good motion blur. 60fps just looks robotic in comparison. There's a reason why cinemas don't go beyond 24fps (Digital cinema has been around for more than 20 years at this point, so no it's nothing to do with buying canisters of film), and why people get headaches watching 3D films... (48fps)

60fps is for slo-mo.

TLDR; your brain likes motion blur. It's how it sees things in real life.
 
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HippoDrone

Admin
Jan 2, 2017
5,259
3,877
113
West Sussex, UK
I ride a
2012 Moto Guzzi V7 Stone
My brain must be broken then as 30fps on a fast bike looks gash on most of the videos I see it. Now you are very good at your "cinematic" stuff, so it suits your filming, but we are not all aspiring movie makers, I like to vlog on my bike, not standing next to it in a moody or awe-inspiring location and for me, maybe not everyone, 60fps is very much better.
 

WEB

L Plate Member
Feb 14, 2020
230
318
63
32
I ride a
Triumph Thruxton + Harley Lowrider
Ever watched the MotoGP on the tele? UK TV runs at 25fps playback.

Do remember that more fps = a higher shutter = less light hitting the sensor = details in the image lost.

This is before introducing variables like the refresh rates that peoples screens run at...

For us complete amateurs it probably doesn't make a lick of difference, but yeah, there's my reasoning why 60fps is for slow motion only.
 

WEB

L Plate Member
Feb 14, 2020
230
318
63
32
I ride a
Triumph Thruxton + Harley Lowrider
(Should have noted that MotoGP is obviously shot at super high FPS for all their slo-mo replaying needs - but they're also using big ol' expensive cameras with big ol' sensors that can capture all that light data they need for broadcast quality at those frame rates)
 
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HippoDrone

Admin
Jan 2, 2017
5,259
3,877
113
West Sussex, UK
I ride a
2012 Moto Guzzi V7 Stone
I have a difference of opinion, that doesn't mean you are wrong with yours, it just mean my videos on the road look better at 60fps than they do at 30fps. As it goes, my 360 cameras, I run those at 30fps, as I have no choice, but because I am generally framing my bike in those, the motion blur, like you say works... but on my helmetcam (or front facing cam on bike when doing trackdays) 60fps is smooth and shows everything clearly, 30fps makes lampposts and trees bend and often misses detail as it happens faster then the frames can see.
You make fantastic content, and are obviously a very good filmographer even though you play yourself down for some reason. I do think that 90% of motovloggers are not as skilled with camera settings and would be able to (at least while learning the craft) get better looking content on thir 150bhp bikes etc by letting the cameras do the work. My current GoPro can record 2.7k at 120fps, that is slowmo, not 60 IMO.... My editing software can't cope with that so I rarely use it as I don't use professional editing software, I use something I think I paid £40 for 4 years ago.
Chase on 2 Wheels does the same as you and runs low fps and has a hugely successful channel.... but he also has a film crew and camera car.... which most of us are never going to be able to replicate.
My GoPro has most of the settings in their defaults.... and I don't hate rewatching them even after the YouTube nerf.
 

WEB

L Plate Member
Feb 14, 2020
230
318
63
32
I ride a
Triumph Thruxton + Harley Lowrider
Yeah i'm not stating that you're wrong either, just stating that I disagree with the general sentiment (on YouTube) that 60fps is better. This is definitely not the first time this argument (argument? Err.. debate) has come up.

In the end, they're your videos, and you can take them at whatever frame rate you want to take them at. A newbie who is new to all this should definitely shoot at 60fps, shoot at 30fps, shoot at 24fps, see what fits them. 60fps is no more of a correct answer than 24fps. I don't believe that a fast moving video shot at 60fps is better to watch than one shot at a lower frame rate - sure you can pause the video and make out a lamp-post in more detail, but is that where the action is focused? In real life that lamp-post would be a blur. However... that is my opinion. As stated before I can't watch 3D films in the movies without a headache for the same reason, too much going on. My brain is trying to absorb data it is used to seeing as motion blur.

As for slo-mo, playing 60fps footage back at 25fps is slower than playing 120fps back at 60fs!

Funnily enough my next video has a portion of Hero 5 footage captured at 240fps and played back at 25. It's kind of cool to watch the slow stuff...
 

HippoDrone

Admin
Jan 2, 2017
5,259
3,877
113
West Sussex, UK
I ride a
2012 Moto Guzzi V7 Stone
Is ace to have a discussion on here, especially an adult one.
Not that you have, but please don't ever treat my admin status here as a reason to ever agree with me. I joined this forum to learn and also get involved in the community, I ended up here as admin by accident, and I never want folk to think my bits need sucking, my channel is small... as is my peepee! :D hahaha. You never know, I may one day convert to 30/25fps as I learn the craft better, like I said before, I already use 30fps on my dirty bike vids. I imagine I'll stick with 60 on my trackdays though, as the fixed camera only shows straight ahead anyhows, so less to be distracted by.... although 360 footage is awesome for tack action! :D
 
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WEB

L Plate Member
Feb 14, 2020
230
318
63
32
I ride a
Triumph Thruxton + Harley Lowrider
Of course, of course - On the flip side, a lot of the time the way I type things can be construed as attacking in a way. I don't mean it like that. I've been caught out more than a few times in YouTube comments like that... so much so that i've decided just to never ever comment on any technology based video ever...
 
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HippoDrone

Admin
Jan 2, 2017
5,259
3,877
113
West Sussex, UK
I ride a
2012 Moto Guzzi V7 Stone
Of course, of course - On the flip side, a lot of the time the way I type things can be construed as attacking in a way. I don't mean it like that. I've been caught out more than a few times in YouTube comments like that... so much so that i've decided just to never ever comment on any technology based video ever...
Dude, we all have... that is the problem with the internet... it crosses borders, where folk speak differently, SA and Aus are very good at speaking their mind.... the UK, we are very good at making cups of tea and not much else! :D
 
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Dnljmrs

Dr Dan
Apr 13, 2020
30
28
18
33
South Wales
www.danielmorse.me.uk
I ride a
Nothing yet! But cbr 600 f in my sights
Feel like my parents are arguing here haha jk

*shivers in Youtube compression*
Haha, I was thinking exactly the same!

It's an interesting discussion with two very good view points too. I have seen vloggers who are very successful using 60 and 30, so I can see how it'd be a preference thing too. Guess I'll just have to give it a go and choose one that I'm happy with lol. I'm not in it to make millions from videos or subs (although, how nice would that be!) so will just give it a go ☺

I had never really thought about the cinematic aspect of it, but switching the youtube vids. To 1080/60 does imo make the videos appear a little crisper
 
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Moto Mengy

Motovlogger from PA, USA
Mar 23, 2020
255
346
63
48
I ride a
2018 Honda Goldwing Tour DCT
I simply bought a Hero 8 to start out. I watched a ton of GoPro reviews and comparisons, and I spent the money on the Hero 8 for a few reasons:

1. Better wind noise reduction. I've been happy with it so far.
2. Better stabilization than other cams. Again, the Hero 8 seemed to do a better job and I've been happy so far.
3. Good sound quality with internal mics. I wanted to try to avoid using an external mic and buying a full face helmet. Thus far my plan has worked fairly well.

Now as to framerate, I shoot and upload everything in 60fps. I see a lot of motovloggers using 30fps or 24fps for their vids and I think it looks fine honestly, but the ones using 60 do look appreciably better in my opinion so I went with 60 too. I've done some testing with 30 myself and I plan to stick with 60. More and more people watch YT on their modern big screen TV's today, and on my 82" 4K set the difference between 30 & 60 is very noticeable, 60 looks much better.
 

ChrisPook

Wannabie Member
Apr 8, 2020
5
5
3
53
I ride a
Honda Blackbird
My brain must be broken then as 30fps on a fast bike looks gash on most of the videos I see it. Now you are very good at your "cinematic" stuff, so it suits your filming, but we are not all aspiring movie makers, I like to vlog on my bike, not standing next to it in a moody or awe-inspiring location and for me, maybe not everyone, 60fps is very much better.
I think that is probably more to do with the general cinematography than with the specific frame rate.
 

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