Clint Love
It doesn't say CUNT, dammit!
If you're from the South, it's part of your heritage, one way or the other. To me personally, it is significant historically. To some groups of people, though, it's going to represent hate and oppression. That will never change. It doesn't help that hate groups have appropriated it to convey their message, either.
THvlogs
Wannabie Member
Yeah but that's with just about everything. People always try and take good things and incorporate them into their groups to represent something bad. Just like gangs that make wearing certain colors in their city a bad thing.
JamesBrown
TheBrownsWorld
im not from the south but i could care less about it. i mean you can buy isis flag on amazon and im more offended by that then any other flag. heres the thing, they should take it down in public offices and public places that affect a lot of people. make it so if you want to hang it up in your private property. you should be aloud to do anything on your property. thats the problem with the world. everyone wants to be politically correct. to many sensitive people in this country.
CrankyBiker
Wannabie Member
Well I think it's what they (media, political types, dirt kickers) decided to go after since the people in Charleston and those visiting were able to respond in a manner those people (in parenthesis) don't know how to respond to. In other words, there's got to be some kind of drama...can't let it go with most people having an attitude of forgiveness, showing compassion and love. I've lived in the South my whole live, was born in the South and have been in SC for close to 30 years and I couldn't care less whether it stays or goes from the flag pole. It is part of our history and as such should be displayed somewhere, like a museum at the least. I hope this ends all the talk of slavery/racism/other talk designed to get people all riled up and lets move forward with expressing compassion, empathy and love for one another whatever your race/political affiliation/sexual preference may be.
To answer your question directly about pride or hate - I think the meaning of the flag has become distorted for all involved and it's something that people have a right to display if they want to but I'm not sure why it belongs in front of the State House. We have a state flag, and the rebel flag isn't it.
To answer your question directly about pride or hate - I think the meaning of the flag has become distorted for all involved and it's something that people have a right to display if they want to but I'm not sure why it belongs in front of the State House. We have a state flag, and the rebel flag isn't it.
Clint Love
It doesn't say CUNT, dammit!
There's also the issue of the fact that the rectangular "Confederate Flag" most people recognize was never used officially as the flag of the CSA. The battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, a square version was in use as a battle flag since the beginning, though. It also became a part of the CSA national flag design in 1863. The battle flag on a white field was definitely connected to racial supremacy ideals, though that was never official either. The original Confederate Flag was the "Stars and Bars" that even a lot of Southerners won't recognize these days. I think that flag is a better flag of Heritage than the battle flag anyway, as it represented nothing more than the formation of a new nation and was present since the beginning in 1861. The link to a pic of the Stars and Bars is HERE.
kuhlka
Wannabie Member
That's exactly what's going on. The congregation forgave the shooter and were asking him to repent, the most mind-bogglingly Christian thing they could do in their situation and the news media went, "Boooorrrrrriiiiiiiiing. Let's hype the shit out of this tragedy! This one could last at least a few months if we juice it right!"
I can see where people who are still dealing with racism are coming from, wanting it taken down. However, I also understand the history of that time was much more gray than the black & white BS children are taught in school. Both North and South had slavery and the North was only abandoning it because they had a massive influx of cheap labor from Europe. Had they waited a few decades (and avoided over 1,000,000 DEATHS via the bloody Civil War) the South would have naturally grown its population and abandoned slavery as well. If slavery was cheaper than low income workers, the North wouldn't have gradually gotten into the abolitionist movement.
THAT is what bugs me about this sudden freak-out over the Southern Cross. People have no appreciation or understanding of just how complex and truly gray history is. The North was trying to take the South's industry and wealth by supporting Abolitionist terrorists (John Brown) and raising them up as heroes rather than the criminals they were. After numerous events which showed the religious fanatics of the north would rather support terrorism than let slavery be a states' rights issue for the courts to decide, the Confederacy was formed. Keep in mind, the Emancipation Proclaimation only covered slaves in the SOUTH, not the North. The North only offered slaves the opportunity for freedom if they fought for the North, aka duped them into sacrificing themselves rather than just freeing them like the slaves in the South. Lets also not forget the US government went on to massacre the native population after the war. Another fun fact is that the Native Americans and Hispanics from Mexico joined the South during the war because the US government was seriously screwing them over. It wasn't an all-white war for the South.
To play devil's advocate, though, there was a massive insurgency after the Civil War and people associated with the Confederacy assassinated a US President along with many other crimes. The Confederacy lost, so if anyone is using that flag for anything more than honoring their dead ancestors who fought in the Civil War, it's probably not a bright idea. I'm a direct descendant of Richard Henry Lee and a cousin to Robert E Lee, so I have strong feelings about all of this, but I'm not about to ignore the racost, violent, and bloody history between the loss of the Civil War and modern day.
SO, just like my cousin, I don't think the symbol of the old Confederacy is worth supporting. Leave it for museums and graveyards. It doesn't make sense to fly it on public government buildings. The Confederacy is dead. If people want to fly it personally to remember the horrors of war, government abuse of power, and how much better off the South is without slavery, more power to em. If people want to fly it to represent Southern non-racist pride, whatever. Just don't say anything that sounds like it remotely excuses racist mass-murderers.
THvlogs
Wannabie Member
I agree with the fact that it doesn't belong on the government buildings. It just really makes no sense for it to be there. I also agree that the majority of people who fly it don't actually have any understanding of where the flag comes from. I personally do not own the flag but I don't have a problem with it. I just look at it solely as personal use and a simple representation of being proud to be southern (this is what seems to be the modern meaning).
I was talking to wolf and crow and thought that it would make an awesome video if we went out and asked people who had the flag what it meant or why they support/fly it. I have a feeling the answers would be quite funny and a lot of dumbfounded looks would probably be involved. If anyone wants to try this please post the video here haha.
I was talking to wolf and crow and thought that it would make an awesome video if we went out and asked people who had the flag what it meant or why they support/fly it. I have a feeling the answers would be quite funny and a lot of dumbfounded looks would probably be involved. If anyone wants to try this please post the video here haha.
MrJoel
Rom: one-one-six unashamed
You hit it right on the head! Ignorance all around!!! All these offended people and they have no idea of what they are really offended about, they just want to be offended! The "confederate flag" is seen more as a sign of rebellion than one of racism, heck the general lee from the Dukes of Hazard was the first casualty of this was on southern heritage....and yet most black folks my age loved that show and its 4 wheeled star. After all, that show was one of the most diverse of its day with many guest appearances of black celebrities being treated as equals!
Clint Love
It doesn't say CUNT, dammit!
Those types I like to call the Offenderati. They're the so-called Social Justice Warriors that make it a point to demonstrate how "offensive" everything is, thinking it makes them look like better human beings for being so "aware". Really, they're just showing everyone how they like to masturbate in public.
kuhlka
Wannabie Member
Ignorant, but when the KKK and other hate groups regularly flap that flag around, it gets a bad public image. Considering how few people actually do any research before spouting off at the mouth, public image is frequently all that matters in this country. The news media and politicians know it and exploit it.
CrankyBiker
Wannabie Member
They also flap around the US flag. You don't really see that advertised though.
