Are generalizations ok?

R-Rated

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I saw this on late night talk and then found this article

OK Boomer

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/06/asia/new-zealand-ok-boomer-trnd/index.html?no-st=1573068367

Now as I am just a young plucky person under the century mark I am baffled how dismissing someone based on age is acceptable behavior. Sure the heckler in the article was wrong to disrupt and the late night talk show host in the US had a valid point that "ok boomer" is not as vile as using the "N-word" as an insult but does that mean it is any more civil? No.

Whipping out some other terms besides boomer that could apply: codger, old fart, Col. Blimp (new to me), biddy, old bag, old bat, - well you see none are really more than name calling based on age.

So how does this apply to us as motovloggers? We tend to dabble in being relevant and hip to what all the cats are saying around the schoolyard. It would be tempting to fall into such temptation and give the wrong impression we are ageist.

I wouldn't want to be dismissed with "ok RUB" would you? But I am not apt to disrupt a government proceeding.

Stay cool kids!
9202be378c3e4a2f4a910789e7f1dfb2.jpg
 
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HippoDrone

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I think if something is meant as an insult then ageism, racism, bigotry, etc is disgusting. But I also think context matters and if it is as a funny retort or as a raised eyebrows "wtf you talkin about Willis" response then it should be taken as such. "Snowflake" is a prime example, it could be intended as an insult, or a reality check on someone or as just banter.
 
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R-Rated

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I think if something is meant as an insult then ageism, racism, bigotry, etc is disgusting. But I also think context matters and if it is as a funny retort or as a raised eyebrows "wtf you talkin about Willis" response then it should be taken as such. "Snowflake" is a prime example, it could be intended as an insult, or a reality check on someone or as just banter.
I agree. I think dismissing someone needs to be an artform vs. just implying because they are old they just don't get it.

Look at the latest Joker movie and the IRW protests where folks are identifying with "we are all clowns". We see a dismissal become a rallying cry.
 
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LoneWolfer

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He heckled her and she dismissed him perfectly as someone clinging to ass backwards ideals that are perpetuated by certain individuals of a specific generation and continued her argument. Pretty telling of her composure and the solid foundation of her argument.

I had originally typed out a multi-paragraph response but I am personally tired of defending myself and others in my generation, I'm right at the head of millennials, after being constantly told I'm weak, a pussy, called homosexual & sometimes racist slurs and that I need to work harder because I want cleaner air, better health care options, cost effective educational options and infrastucture paid for by the top 1% and corporations because they benefit the most from said infrastructure, a healthy and educated populous. So, no I don't think truncating Baby boomer to boomer is much of a slur but rather a label that points out individuals in said generation who feel entitled even though they have perpetuated so many ass backwards ideals that have put future generations at risk.
 

R-Rated

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He heckled her and she dismissed him perfectly as someone clinging to ass backwards ideals that are perpetuated by certain individuals of a specific generation and continued her argument. Pretty telling of her composure and the solid foundation of her argument.

I had originally typed out a multi-paragraph response but I am personally tired of defending myself and others in my generation, I'm right at the head of millennials, after being constantly told I'm weak, a pussy, called homosexual & sometimes racist slurs and that I need to work harder because I want cleaner air, better health care options, cost effective educational options and infrastucture paid for by the top 1% and corporations because they benefit the most from said infrastructure, a healthy and educated populous. So, no I don't think truncating Baby boomer to boomer is much of a slur but rather a label that points out individuals in said generation who feel entitled even though they have perpetuated so many ass backwards ideals that have put future generations at risk.
Interesting point of view, "after being constantly told I'm weak, a pussy, called homosexual & sometimes racist slurs and that I need to work harder because I want..." because I have heard those same things as a young genX from other same age, older, and younger people. Does that mean they all are boomers or would a better way to say it is the other party has an irrelevant point if they are going to base their arguement on slurs and insults?

My point is name calling is not civil and definitely not productive to an intellectual conversation.

Unfortunately some cultures have a circle of the older viewing the younger as the problem and vice versa. For example,

SmartSelect_20191107-111400_Chrome.jpg


SmartSelect_20191107-111302_Chrome.jpg


So to think about someone being "youth" in the 1960s then they are likely the 50 and older people we see now. So wait, "the boomers" now were part of a generation of people that were young and disruptive?

YouTube has a great presentation from Adam Conover addressing the myth of generations. He presents some great data including evidence young vs old was present in ancient times. He also has links in the video description to where an expert took exception to his view so he met with them for a discussion.

I am not sure posting a link would be allowed here.
 

LoneWolfer

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Let's be clear about disruption. The millennials who who are being called disruptive along with a great deal many other things are using facts and evidence backed by science/experts to keep our world viable for not just future generations but our own. We aren't rebelling, we are trying to clean up our world so that we don't see extinction as predicted as far back as 1955 when it was widely printed in science books that fossil fuel use would raise Earth's temps to levels that were not conducive to human life. We want to end war and make life better for everyone simply by all of us chipping in and getting people medical attention, an education and balance diet. I think that is quite a bit different than just challenging social norms of love, drug consumption, and main stream American life. Yes, the hippie movement protested against war but that was a part of rebelling against the norms of Service to one's country. And Baby Boomers are 55 to 75. GenXer's are 40-54. Millennials are 19-39.

I know plenty of people who are Baby Boomers who aren't part of the problem. I work alongside them trying to make the town I live in a better place. But there are also a handful of senior citizens who do nothing but fight the Board of Education on every expense, they demand space for a senior center even though there are programs through the library and our town annex for only seniors as well as tons of other programs seniors can do along side other generations in my town, and get angry when they see the budget for Public Works go up as we see more and more detrimental storms (snow as well as storms that are just stronger wind and rain wise) that mean Public Works has to work harder to clean everything up. But if their road isn't plowed an hour after the snow starts falling they are on the phone with someone at town hall or DPW or the Police Department complaining they are trapped at home.

It isn't correct for every baby Boomer to get blamed or called names for the shitty ones, but the issues my generation has been presented with were known before we were born and might not let us see grand children. And that might is a pretty big might, not a small possibility.
 
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R-Rated

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Aren't those people in the examples all now "boomers"? :D
Yep. So does that mean everyone is doomed to one day become closed minded, insult throwing, hating others, individuals who are the part of a future problem?

I hope not. I especially hope that we as riders and motovloggers don't but then again, I do see some similarity between dismissing someone based on generalizations and what some of us have seen among the different types of riders.

So the challenge becomes how to change that? My thinking is just because a person wants to behave uncivilized then I should not drop to that level in my behavior. Like troll comments on videos, if they have a valid point then we should engage them in discussions. If they don't or continue to behave uncivilized then we banish them to the wasteland of just yelling into an empty drum.

Maybe they will hear their own echo and realize how bad it sounds.
 

R-Rated

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@LoneWolfer I know what you mean about folks only looking at social problems from their own point of view and/or how it affects their life. My IRW job deals with folks that are either truly in need, not as bad off as they think, or are just trying to scam.

The problem is that it is not just one age group or sex or whatever way we tend to group people. There are some of the three in every possible categorization.

So where I work we have to struggle against making generalizations and exam each case individually.

Outside of work, whenever I run across a person who presents an obstacle I think to myself, how likely am I to outlive them if I can't overcome them now? If the answer is very likely then I take a different approach than what I would take if I am not as likely.

Last night I was discussing this new phrase with my wife and teen. Our teen said that there are posters at school reminding folks about things like dress code and conduct. The posters all have "ok boomer" written sharpie now.

I explained to him that is funny and somewhat acceptable but to use the phrase to insult is not. He replied the students say it all the time to each other so my wife asked for an example.

He said if his friend is in class and cannot find their work they saved on their laptop, he will help them and after they finally find it he would say, "ok boomer". He said it is because old people don't get technology. I asked if he needed help finding something and someone helped him find it then does that make him an old person? Would he appreciate someone insinuating he is inept just because he did find it?

He thought about it and said no.

So I explained that what starts out as joke can easily turn into something used for hate.

You gave examples how it was done to you. If your experience was like mine, someone might have thought it was just a joke at first. However, it was not right.
 

LoneWolfer

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Yes, there are narrow minded people and scammers in all generations. 100% agree there, but I also feel that they need to be called out and mocking them after they have shown their view or their ignorance, such as with the origination of this post. That man heckled a younger person in away that was meant to demean, demoralize and infantize the speaker. I personally saw it also as misogonistic.

The example you gave about your teen is a grey area for me. I personally don't run into people who aren't of the baby boomer generation that have issues with simple tasks on computers. I also work for a DJ who is 72, built and maintains his own website and never asks me a question concerning tech or his phone and he always has the latest samsung phone. However, he hired me specifically to carry all of his equipement and I happen to be going over his house on Sunday to take down a few trees.

What I'm getting at is perspective. My perspective is that anyone who is 75 or younger should have a handle on computers, the rise of the computer happened in their lifetime and within a time frame that they could and should have been capable of learning how to use and navigate those devices. However a 72 year old, Vietnam Vet with a bad knee who can easily hire someone to carry their work equipment or cut down trees is a different story. The first is ignorant usuing their age as a crutch because they do not wish to grow or ove forward with society. The second is proactive concerning his physical limitations due to actually aging.

And right now, I'm dealing with an Aunt who keeps sharing garbage antivax propoganda. She is a baby boomer and falls into the catagory of being ignorant and stupid. I love my aunt, but she just won't let go of false narratives spread by bullshit artists on facebook even though I know she can search and read the millions of articles including those on the CDC website about the importance of getting the flu shot and how the nominal amount of mercury in the delivery agent is not absobed into the body and that she herself can't just get autism from vaccines. But this is most of what she shares because sadly, she only really cares about herself. I know for a fact that she got TB vaccine when she was a child and that her son got multiple tetinus shots along with me as we grew up together. So in my eyes she is a boomer because she has let age make her ignorant.
 
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R-Rated

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@LoneWolfer sorry to hear about your aunt. Everyone in the US should know Mercury poisoning only occurs if you are driving the Cougar, Mountaineer, Maruader, Marquis...etc.

Just a little humor.

I think another factor in developing a closed mind may not just be age. Environment and culture have a part. I live the Southeastern US and some folks tend to develop closed mindedness at a much younger age than others of the same age also living in the US. The main difference seems to be if they are growing up in a more progressive environment vs. regressive or even oppressed.

Your point about your aunt being taken with the false information, I think that speaks to how we as motovloggers can be a positive impact through our actions and interactions with others online. It may help offset some of the other stuff out there.

Perhaps we could end our videos kind of the old the more you know PSAs? Picture this. The scene is group of riders all sneering and giggling because Sammy rides small displacement bike or scooter.

Lonewolfer rides up the the group and asks them what is so funny. They explain and then you engage them in if they know Sammy's personal situation and finances? Point out that maybe Sammy worked hard just to get that bike and so the others should be happy for Sammy.

The other three look down and realise their joking was hurtful. You turn towards the camera and ask the audience if they see a similarity between the scenario and some relevant social issue.

End with a twinkle smile and some kind a heroic music.

That is one idea how we can rise above name calling and show a better way.
 
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HippoDrone

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Am pretty sure the PSA and upbringing of decent humans should be left to teachers and parents. I'd literally lose 99% of my audience if I started doing cringey stuff like that in my videos. My target audience is not kids, it is "roughty toughty" bikers who can take a bit of banter, and give it back. Folk need to stop getting offended at everything... we have a couple of scooter riders on here, none of them get ridiculed, we have a chap who rides a Can-Am on here, we don't take the piss outta him, we are all bikers, we are all inclusive on here.f someone called me a boomer or laughed at my inability to do stuff with modern tech, so what, my skin is thicker than that. I would hope that if I mocked them for their sense of entitlement or utter lack of knowledge on how the real world actually works, they would too take it on the chin... and I could go read an instruction manual while they go and read a history book.
 

R-Rated

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Interesting points.

I think motovloggers in general are a bit different in the way we think than most riders in general. Then if you break down by brand and/or type of bike you see the a good vocal chunk general population go beyond joking to out and out ostracism. I am just saying be mindful of giving our own voices to something that may one day be used to hurt others.

It can get a whole lot worse once you remove the commonality of riding.

Luckily me suggesting that we be mindful is not a mandatory thing. So each of us is free to be as cringy as we can be without being locked up.

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HippoDrone

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Interesting points.

I think motovloggers in general are a bit different in the way we think than most riders in general. Then if you break down by brand and/or type of bike you see the a good vocal chunk general population go beyond joking to out and out ostracism. I am just saying be mindful of giving our own voices to something that may one day be used to hurt others.

It can get a whole lot worse once you remove the commonality of riding.

Luckily me suggesting that we be mindful is not a mandatory thing. So each of us is free to be as cringy as we can be without being locked up.

View attachment 4602
Your OP was aimed at motovloggers which was why I responded as one.
As a viewer of motovlogs, I tend to switch off, unsub and never look back if they creator is a dick... ie bigoted or hating on folk etc, there is no need for it and I don't have time for it.... but saying that, if we can't take a witty retort or a bit of banter, we are doomed! :D

Asd for IRL, I avoid being near people who are too narrow minded to see their way is not the only way
 

LoneWolfer

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I suffered a fair bit of the mercury poisoning rolling through my neck of the woods in my first car, an 86 Cougar.

And I agree name calling for the sake of name calling is crap. No need to just be a jerk. Name calling as a form of camaraderie, well that is something I heavily endorse amongst friends and familiars that are acceptin gof that practice. And when it comes to dealing with someone who will not listen and is using derogatory terms then it is only fair to turn the table on them.

And personally I have a few vids where I have made fun of some groups/individuals, mostly the one that I am part of, Harley riders. The main one that comes to mind is guys who brag about having low miles on their bikes. My point being that I don't usually post anything cringey or even slighly political in my vlogs. I do sometimes share that stuff on instagram but rarely on my motovlog account. But I wholey support folks who put themselves out there trying to save us from our evil, polluting selves and corporations.

And [B]R-Rated[/B], I ride a Sportster so I am very well aquainted with being looked down on for what i ride specifically in the Harley Community. Even just a few weeks ago another Salesman said, "Oh don't you want to upgrade to a big boy bike?" I didn't even awknowledge he spoke as I was at the parts counter. And when I bought the bike, it was the only option for something brand new in my price range and the power that I wanted. But after all these years I've gotten more out of that bike than I could have imagined.


And when it comes to narrow mindedness as an environmental/location influence you don't need to be in the S.E. to suffer a narrowing of synaptic pathways. Critical thinking skills are on the decline it seems in my area of the country as well.
 

CafeBrakes

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Millennial here speaking. Since I live in a the most liberal state in America, I do understand where you are coming from. There are so many people who take offense to unnecessary vocabulary. I understand the derogatory language can be offensive. The boomer age and millenials honestly need to work together. Baby boomers did have it easy when it came to school and debt but they also worked much harder. Millenials do have it hard when it comes to student debt but we also ask for too many handouts without working as hard. I personally think that having hobbys like riding brings us all together, maybe the whole world should ride motorcycles. :p
 

LoneWolfer

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Millennial here speaking. Since I live in a the most liberal state in America, I do understand where you are coming from. There are so many people who take offense to unnecessary vocabulary. I understand the derogatory language can be offensive. The boomer age and millenials honestly need to work together. Baby boomers did have it easy when it came to school and debt but they also worked much harder. Millenials do have it hard when it comes to student debt but we also ask for too many handouts without working as hard. I personally think that having hobbys like riding brings us all together, maybe the whole world should ride motorcycles. :p
I don't see Millenials not working as hard part at all. All the millenials I know that aren't in college/grad school work 60-80 hour work weeks and don't have even half the benefits that the two previous generations had when just starting their jobs. This crap that my/our generation isn't hard working needs to stop.

Notice how I didn't say the previous geerations didn't work hard? Notice how I didn't put them down? But that is what many, many, many people in the previous two generations have been doing for years and when a couple of them get called Boomer they get all defensive and pissy.

And yes, the whole world should be riding motorcycles. That is a fact.
 

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