Optimal Episode Length

lonerockz

lonerockz

Wannabie Member
Peeps, I'm working on my first videos and they are becoming longer than I think is desirable. My channel will only be for trips that I take, not for daily rides or anything like that. Most travel Vlogs that I have seen are an episode per day. My practice weekend trip I took a few weeks ago was three days. On the first day I visited 5 places and have footage for each of these. When I edit it down each location ends up about 2 minutes in length. This is an on bike intro, visit the site with narration about it, and then an on bike Outro. Adding in some on bike footage between each location, an epsiode intro and outro, And it ends up at about 20 minutes. My gut is saying this is too long for a new channel. It would be fine if I was established, but not to get new people to watch.

I see my options as:
A. Remove some content. Either less on bike footage, or remove some sites.
B. Split it into half day episodes.
C. Cut down the site narration and drop it to about 15 minutes run time (Which still seems long).

Anyone have any adivce?

Once I have the first episode done I'll be posting it up for feedback, but its only about 50% there.

Thanks,

Steve
 
I'm terrible at making shorter duration videos, mine always seem to come out long these days.... although I do wish I could make them shorter... but they are the length they are.

Are you not able to do a video for each location?
 
Hadn't thought of doing a video of each location! I'll think about it. It would then be like 3-4 minute videos, but a ton of them. More on Moto footage, but less time talking. Maybe I'll try a few cuts that way to test things out.
 
I tried to make one episode per travel day, of my last travel, but some of them ended up so long, I still split them differently. Now I have the feeling I would like to try making up to 10 minute long episodes, in the future. I don't have any long trips planned for this year. Shorter trips should give me just enough footage, to try this out.
 
Theodor said:
I tried to make one episode per travel day, of my last travel, but some of them ended up so long, I still split them differently. Now I have the feeling I would like to try making up to 10 minute long episodes, in the future. I don't have any long trips planned for this year. Shorter trips should give me just enough footage, to try this out.
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I enjoyed them as they were since they came out around mealtime. A nice little travel with a my online pal.

This brings up a good point on video length @lonerockz - the ideal time will be what your audience will tolerate.

I used my audience retention analytics and found 5 minutes is good for a general motovlog. Shorter for some very specific topics (i.e. a joke, a rant, or a bad driver incident). Then longer for others such as a detailed tour of one place or a bike review.
 
PhilTonic said:
What is your target audience? If your audience is willing to invest a substantial amount of time because they like your content or you as a person, the longer the better. If you are targeting 15 year old kids with ADHD, you probably want shorter videos.
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Dude, it ain't just 15 year olds that can't pay attention long. There are some adults that seem to have the attention span of a toddler on caffeine :D
 
Personally? I like videos 9-20 mins long. When I sit down to watch Motovlog stuff I tend to have 5-10 vids in my playlist so if they were all over 20mins long, it would be a bit like watching an incoherent movie

But I do watch the 20+min ones, they just go in a separate playlist that I get around to in-between doing things around the house or on my phone.
 
This is an interesting part of motovlogging that I spend quite a bit of time thinking about... probably more than I should.

A lot of my vlogs are me commuting, so I know what my average times are on each recordable leg of my commute. I have about 10 minutes before I hit the highway in the morning, and 20 in the afternoon [different route home, and far more scenic].

I tend to pick a quicker subject for morning rides, and more in-depth ones for the evening. That way, if I run long or want to change direction, I can.

Then, my weekend ride videos, I like to pick a specific place to ride to and usually something to talk about. I will mix in more riding/music sections on these videos.

So, morning commute vids end up 7-12 mins long, afternoon is usually 12-20, and weekend rides? I try to stick to 15-25 mins of final video. I recently went on a ride that I'd done before on my channel, and instead of 3 videos each 12 mins long, I had 1 video that ended up being 17 minutes long.

What are the results of all this? My videos, no matter how long, tend to have a 30-50% AVD. Literally any video, from 7 minutes to 25 minutes in length, will get 30-50% AVD. The longer videos tend to have somewhat fewer view numbers overall.

My takeaway? Make the video as long as you want and your viewers will watch it. As long as the editing is there so it's not several minutes of just engine and wind noise [unless you're doing one of those "raw sound" videos], you'll be fine. At the end of the day, YOU have to be happy with the video in its entirety. If you're not, then cut out stuff that doesn't apply, or fit into the story you're trying to tell.

My advice would be to experiment with the edit until YOU are happy with it, and adjust it over time to fit the style you're going for. I tend to edit for a faster pace, more upbeat video, with very little time spent not talking in it - except for my music sections.

I hope some of that made sense. No guarantees. Just have fun with it.

-John
 
Thanks so much for all the feedback folks! I've managed to get it down to about 15 minutes, which seems fine. At least I can watch it and not think it's too slow or fast, and it has about the right amount of content. I'd love to post it to get some feedback, but I can't. I'm not 100% sure of the rules here to post, but I think I need more posts.
 
R-Rated said:
Dude, it ain't just 15 year olds that can't pay attention long. There are some adults that seem to have the attention span of a toddler on caffeine :D
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The question of the target audience is a great one. I'm not a big consumer of Youtube content myself. Many MotoVlogs aren't for me (and that's fine!). I get motion sickness watching anything that moves around too fast, so any helmet cam work where people check their mirrors often means I've got to stop watching that.

I'd say my target audience is people that like "ItchyBoots," "Motorcycle Travel Channel," or "Pedro Mota." But I'll have more of a focus on the places and less on the Motorcycle.
 
lonerockz said:
The question of the target audience is a great one. I'm not a big consumer of Youtube content myself. Many MotoVlogs aren't for me (and that's fine!). I get motion sickness watching anything that moves around too fast, so any helmet cam work where people check their mirrors often means I've got to stop watching that.

I'd say my target audience is people that like "ItchyBoots," "Motorcycle Travel Channel," or "Pedro Mota." But I'll have more of a focus on the places and less on the Motorcycle.
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Emphasis added - because I got that feedback early on in my motovlogging journey, from non-motovloggers. My response was to first set my HyperSmooth to HIGH on whatever GoPro was hanging off the side of my helmet. When I started using 2 cameras, cutting to the 2nd cam when I do my head checks - quick fix for all the shakiness.

THEN, I added the Max Lens Mod to my Hero 9 and Hero 10 - BOOM! Super smooth footage, and the non-motovloggers that watch my vlogs responded favorably. Is it for everyone? No. Does it make ME feel better? Yep. Also, the cool stuff I can do with super stable footage without resorting to the TimeLapse feature.

All this is to say that I agree - knowing your target audience is a great way to go about it.

-John
 
Drakhen99 said:
Emphasis added - because I got that feedback early on in my motovlogging journey, from non-motovloggers. My response was to first set my HyperSmooth to HIGH on whatever GoPro was hanging off the side of my helmet. When I started using 2 cameras, cutting to the 2nd cam when I do my head checks - quick fix for all the shakiness.

THEN, I added the Max Lens Mod to my Hero 9 and Hero 10 - BOOM! Super smooth footage, and the non-motovloggers that watch my vlogs responded favorably. Is it for everyone? No. Does it make ME feel better? Yep. Also, the cool stuff I can do with super stable footage without resorting to the TimeLapse feature.

All this is to say that I agree - knowing your target audience is a great way to go about it.

-John
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Your multi cam workflow has really helped out. Each time I check my mirrors I just switch to my other cam. It’s perfect.
 
I try to keep my vids between 10-20 minutes, but I have had a few well over 30 minutes and a couple closer to an hour even. I pretty much just make the video I want to make and let the run time end up being what it is! :p

However, looking at many of the large motovlogging channels, seems like most of them prefer the 15-25 minute ranges, so maybe there is something to that.
 
Yeah, when I go to a new channel if they have a bunch of long videos I usually just move on. Even ItchyBoots 20 minute or so average is a little long for me. Often times not enough happens to warrant 20 minutes.

People have gotten so good at their editing and camera work that it has really raised the bar on what is watchable. I don't watch channels that I probably would have three years ago. The cameras and software has gotten so good that It's better than broadcast quality from 5 years ago.
 
lonerockz said:
Yeah, when I go to a new channel if they have a bunch of long videos I usually just move on. Even ItchyBoots 20 minute or so average is a little long for me. Often times not enough happens to warrant 20 minutes.

People have gotten so good at their editing and camera work that it has really raised the bar on what is watchable. I don't watch channels that I probably would have three years ago. The cameras and software has gotten so good that It's better than broadcast quality from 5 years ago.
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Man, ain't THAT the truth! Going from 1 to 2 cameras by itself will make longer videos more watchable. Adding in interactions with other drivers, or pedestrians, that adds to it too. It's so much easier now to make a better video than 3 years ago, and with some [ok, a LOT] of practice, you can get good at slicing and dicing the footage to get its runtime down.

I was looking at my recent videos, and I went from the 15-18m length down to 8-12m on average. And there's still a lot going on, and very little blank space. And, they take under 2 hours each to edit... which keeps me happy [I see progress, instead of slogging through the same footage day after day, which I've done in the past].

Heck, even my 5-camera High Rock video that I did recently... only took 4 hours to put together, and it's got a TON of stuff going on [IMO].

-John
 
Some great replies here. I'll just add that it's not just a motovlog problem. Aggressive editing is essential to any form of narrative, from articles and stories, to business writing, and even online posts (and I've been guilty in each case). I learned really quickly that my youtube videos are too long, with even the short ones ending up in the 15-20 minute range, and the long ones coming in around 40. Pretty much nobody will sit and watch a single video for that long, unless it's exceptionally good at drawing you in.

I just went back and skimmed through all of the videos on FortNine's channel over the past 5 years. Ryan is one of the best out there IMO, and packs a huge amount of narrative goodness into every video. Yet, the longest one I found came in at only 16 minutes, with most landing in the 8-10 minute range. In comparison, I just published a quick "hello world" motovlog/channel update, and was aiming for around 8 minutes, and it ended up at 13.

I don't think there's any absolute answer to "how long is too long"; as with any subjective opinion, the answer is "it depends". But I think that, as a content creator, when you ask yourself it is too long, it probably is. To paraphrase my old writing teacher (who is a professional novelist and competent editor): you have to be relentless in trimming, and be willing to "kill your darlings"... meaning that if a piece of fancy prose (or in our case, a pretty stretch of road or dialogue) doesn't substantially add to the narrative, it must go.
 
<ugh... I really don't like the 2 minute timeout on editing posts here>

I was going to add that, in your case, you do have an advantage that you are operating in more of a travelogue format, and you can choose to edit your episodes around as long or as short a stretch of travel as you want. In your case, if you wanted to, you could easily have one whole episode on just the castle, for example. And more episodes = more content. Just my $0.02.
 
I have been thinking about the length and hope to divide the videos into 8-minute segments for several reasons. First is the points @TallADVer makes above. Many very successful channels keep things shorter. But more importantly, I think it will be more sustainable. I plan on one video a week to start. I've been getting down my editing technique, but it will still take about 1-hour segment. Each segment is about 2 minutes or so on average. Doing a video with eight segments will take about ten hours of editing. I don't think I can devote ten hours a week to this. Cutting things in half will mean only five or so hours of editing time per week/episode. That is much more sustainable. I've been heads down on this in my free time, and I can't keep that up. Other hobbies need some attention. For this three-day trip, I will get five or six segments. That seems good. My Upcoming trip to Spain and France is 45 days, based on my current plans, that will yield about 75 7-9 minute episodes. That's a year of content (and 500+ hours of editing time, Yikes!).

I also plan on making a 20-30 second short-form video from each segment to post to TickTock, Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube shorts, as a way to generate interest and drive more folks to the full video. I haven't done one yet, but I should be able to whip one up in 10 minutes by just resuing my work for the full episode.
 
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