Color Saturation

WaltInPA

Wannabie Member
Over the last couple of months I've been feeling like I'm chasing my tail on adjusting colors in my videos. I've watched a few videos on Color Correction but most of them get much too advanced for a basic Motovlog - so I've been sticking to making simple edits.

Sometimes the end result looks great and the colors really pop. Other times it looks much too oversaturated - lighting conditions seem to pose the biggest problem. Especially when I go from a bright sunny view into a shadowy area under tree cover.

The video below is the same clip looped 5 times with different levels of color saturation. It starts with raw footage from the GoPro and gradually increases saturation. I deliberately selected a clip that includes both Sunny and Tree Cover so that you can see the transition.

I'd like to get your input on the point where the adjustments look unappealing.

 
Personally, on that clip, I preferred the 1st run. Was that recorded as flat color? It looked like it had GoPro color grading already. If you are not recording in flat color, then you will get very varied results as the camera will be doing it automatically through the video.
 
Personally, on that clip, I preferred the 1st run. Was that recorded as flat color? It looked like it had GoPro color grading already. If you are not recording in flat color, then you will get very varied results as the camera will be doing it automatically through the video.

That was standard GoPro color settings.
I may need to experiment with the flat color profile again. The first couple of times I tried it I didn't like the results. It was cloudy / overcast and it seemed like no matter how many adjustments I made, I just couldn't get it to look half decent.
 
First, what hippo-said. If you plan to color grade, shoot in flat or log mode.

Second, color grading / saturation / shadows / highlights, all interact. I can get really long winded on this, so bear with me.

What editor are you using?

Really, the look you probably want, is more vivid colors (espcially greens), while maintaining detail in the shadow areas. I don't adjust saturation in my vids, but I make it look more saturated via other methods.

First thing I would do, is find a dark part of your video, using either the curves adjustment, or the shadows adjustment, lighten it up so you see some details, but not light you get noise, or it looks fake. In the curves adjustment I do this my dragging the lowest left point of the graph, straight up the Y axis or sometimes if you are trying to de-haze you might slide it along the X-axis, but the shadows level adjustment will do a similar thing.

Next, do the same on midtones, this will likely be a VERY small adjustment if any, but play with both up and down.

Hightlights I drop, until the sky and clouds look natural and they way I want. This gives you the basic starting points of a color S curve. What as s-curve does it lighten the darks, darken the lights, and punch up contrast in the mid-tones. This gives the effect of more saturtion, without blowing things out the same way. Here is a screenshot from the curve I ended up with from the footage from this last weekend.

Capture1.JPG


What I did was slide the black point to the right. In doing this, I actually ended up dropping the saturation down to -9, to get it to not look overly saturated, because of the lift in the midtones and highlights, along with the black point moved.

After doing this, now go to the light part of your video, and make sure nothing looks over done or blown out. and adjust the highlights and needed, you may need to drop them more to get them where you want for the light part of the videos.

IF, you are using Davinci Resolve 17, you have the HDR controls, which can do even more fine grained changes to the blacks/shadows and such, but that would be a whole lot to try to cover.

Here is a before and after:

Capture2.JPG


Capture3.JPG


Then, after i put the LUT i created for the style color I want in my videos, that brings up the greens and blues.

Capture4.JPG


Now, to show how you can pump up the shadows when needed, instead of moving the slider to the right, I am going to move the curve from the bottom up the Y axis, watch the detail in the shadow come out in my jacket, you will notice that this has the effect of lowering contrast across almost the entire image, even though the background colors of the sky and the trees don't really change.

Capture5.JPG


From there, as a fun test, since our blacks are now not so black, and as a whole the contrast nearly like it was, you can see how we can now add in saturation and it doesn't throw the blacks into that really dark mess the same way:

Back to 0 on sat (previously it was at -9)
Capture6.JPG


And here is Sat +20
Capture7.JPG


I know was a very detailed and maybe overwhelming bit on this, but the point is to show how where your blacks and shadows are with saturation really effects how saturation interacts. By simple adjustments of the dark areas of the photos, you can really fix the looks of the dark areas to allow you to find a natural looking saturation level, without so much compromise.
 
The frustrating thing about color grading and color correction is it's not universal. I try to do as little as possible with the aim of making the original footage look as best as it can while I'm shooting. This may mean tweaking my camera's setting if possible, or making adjustments for the outdoor lighting conditions.

I do this because no matter what kind adjustments I make - grading or corrections - YT will still compress my video and change the look (if I've done a lot of color adjustments) when it's uploaded for the internet.

I think color grading and corrections work best if the video is to be projected on (hopefully) a high end projector, or broadcast on a high end (HD) signal. Once it's uploaded to the net it goes through another level of compression and changes (depending on the platform and compression CODEC).

Things are also not universal because everyone's monitors and screens are different, meaning they may have different levels of calibration. I ran into this problem when I would have crits in my classes where work was projected on a screen. Instantly I could hear my students' breaths deflate as the old class projector we used was nowhere near the color 'look' of the student work when viewed on their own computer monitors or laptops. We can color grade and correct our videos so they look great on our system, but they could still look really different when seen on someone else's, especially if it hasn't been color balanced or calibrated.

This is one of the things I miss the most about shooting on film. When you projected your work it was always the same, no matter where it was shown. The digital medium is fast, smaller, light, clean (and so much cheaper), but it has it many caveats as well.

For me, less is more. Adjust, but try not to make too many major changes unless you really have a feel for color grading (see the poster above - great stuff), but it may not come across the same when viewed on different systems.

- Wolf
 
@scooterwuf is on to something about YouTube nerfing a lot we do. Plus we cannot predict what folks will be viewing our content on so as long as you are happy watching it, I would not invest too much time in color work until I become a YouTube superstar and can have a staff.
 
Dewey is right, and he's got a LOT of practice color grading motovlog footage. He turned me on to some settings in the GoPro to set - namely recording with a color profile of Flat, and then mucking around with it in Resolve's Color tab.

I found that the end result was very close to the GoPro Color setting, so I leave my cameras in that all the time.

I created an adjustment clip in Resolve that brings up the saturation and exposure a bit for my 2nd and 3rd camera angles, since they never seem to be bright enough. I drop that adj. clip on top of those clips and boom - color grading done.

As to YouTube screwing with it, I watched a video by Jay Lippman recently where he laid out the Davinci Resolve settings you should be using to best work with YT... and it was H.265 format [speeds up processing, Dewey and I found this to be true - 12 hours or less instead of 24+] and the color space and gamma space are Rec.709 and Rec.709A. This supposedly preserves your colors when YT reencodes your video.

Here's Jay's video:

-John
 
I don't do much color grading, as I don't have time + the perception of colour, style, design, etc.. is different for everyone. It's very subjective..

So what I like to do is:
  • record in flat profile on my GoPro
  • I use davinci for editing, so in terms of color grading /correction, I only do 3 things
    1. Increase contrast from 1.0 to 1.1 roughly
    2. Increase saturation from 50 to 60 - roughly
    3. and on the Blur/Sharpness sliders, which is by default set to 50, I set that to 46 - which makes the image more sharper.
    4. Select everything, and middle mouse click on the color graded/corrected clip to apply this to all the clips.
Boom. Job done.
 
@scooterwuf is on to something about YouTube nerfing a lot we do. Plus we cannot predict what folks will be viewing our content on so as long as you are happy watching it, I would not invest too much time in color work until I become a YouTube superstar and can have a staff.

I can't wait for the day that I can have a staff!

Honestly though, don't even bother with color correcting unless you are shooting flat and be minimal. While riding the light changes so much that you can'y really ever do a whole lot to make it uniform. What you see in the movies is all either lit very specifically with artificial lights or shot at a specific time of day and only for about a half hour, where if they don't finish the shot list, they have to wait until the next day.

Also, part of the allure of shooting POV domcumentary stuff is that it is real and not over produced. I have stopped watching a bunch of bigger channels once they hire people to do the editing and stuff for them because it stops having character, flaws and isn't crunchy anymore. In most cases it just becomes over produced crap.
 
Over the last couple of months I've been feeling like I'm chasing my tail on adjusting colors in my videos. I've watched a few videos on Color Correction but most of them get much too advanced for a basic Motovlog - so I've been sticking to making simple edits.

Sometimes the end result looks great and the colors really pop. Other times it looks much too oversaturated - lighting conditions seem to pose the biggest problem. Especially when I go from a bright sunny view into a shadowy area under tree cover.

The video below is the same clip looped 5 times with different levels of color saturation. It starts with raw footage from the GoPro and gradually increases saturation. I deliberately selected a clip that includes both Sunny and Tree Cover so that you can see the transition.

I'd like to get your input on the point where the adjustments look unappealing.

They all look good but I like Option 3 the best ;)
 
I like #1 the best Walt.

I simply shoot in full GoPro auto settings and dont bother with color corrections or such in the editor. I'd rather focus my time on making better video compositions and filming techniques than messing around with color stuff. Plus I've been very happy with GoPro's auto settings, its an easy set and forget for me which saves me time.
 
I do think colour correction is only something to worry about when all the other boxes have been ticked - lighting, audio etc
 
I think it also makes a big difference if you're using a Hero 8/9/Max, as compared to the older models... I've heard from a few vloggers that the newer cameras just take better videos.

I like #1 the best Walt.

I simply shoot in full GoPro auto settings and dont bother with color corrections or such in the editor. I'd rather focus my time on making better video compositions and filming techniques than messing around with color stuff. Plus I've been very happy with GoPro's auto settings, its an easy set and forget for me which saves me time.

Gee, once I get good at actually filming stuff, then I'll worry about colors. I spend way too much time as it is, mucking about with the videos and trying not to trip over my own tongue, or getting around the freakin' wind noise my setup gives me.

-John
 
I don't use a go pro, but I find that recording in the desert, the colors are a bit flat. I pump up the saturation a bit to compensate. I use Premiere though, not Davinci. I tried Davinci Resolve and had a couple videos that screwed up and I had to redo it, so I went with Premiere as I get it for free anyway. Maybe some day I'll dig into this stuff when I get a Go Pro.
 
Colour grading is not something you can do in 5 minutes. It requires work, knowledge and experience. If you don't have time or knowledge - you can use the gopro color and you will be just fine. It is similar to shooting pictures in raw vs jpg. If you think raw is overcomplicated and there is too much hassle - you won't achieve any good result in film grading either.
On the other hand when you know what you're doing - you can even create universal presets without a problem. Someone had to create gopro colour profile after all...
So, all depends on your experience and what do you expect from your videos.

If we compare it to use of a film in photography it's the same really. If you are amateur and don't have knowledge - you would use c41 kodak c200 sort of films developed in automatic lab (that's gopro colour). When you have more knowledge you start to develop your own films yourself and you start to choose more demanding materials like velvia. Then you start to push and pull and cross developing of your films and after that you have much more control over your results than just a standard c41 shooting...
 
Colour grading is not something you can do in 5 minutes. It requires work, knowledge and experience. If you don't have time or knowledge - you can use the gopro color and you will be just fine. It is similar to shooting pictures in raw vs jpg. If you think raw is overcomplicated and there is too much hassle - you won't achieve any good result in film grading either.
On the other hand when you know what you're doing - you can even create universal presets without a problem. Someone had to create gopro colour profile after all...
So, all depends on your experience and what do you expect from your videos.

If we compare it to use of a film in photography it's the same really. If you are amateur and don't have knowledge - you would use c41 kodak c200 sort of films developed in automatic lab (that's gopro colour). When you have more knowledge you start to develop your own films yourself and you start to choose more demanding materials like velvia. Then you start to push and pull and cross developing of your films and after that you have much more control over your results than just a standard c41 shooting...
Yeah, I know...I am not a photographer. I have done tech support for some of them though, but they knew what they were doing with that and I knew how to fix their IT issues. Not a lot of crossover beyond calibration, if you recall things like barco monitors. I am just older now and don't have the patience I once did...
 
Ok so full disclosure - I didn't read this whole thread, I skimmed it. BUT, it looks like everyone is talking only about what we do in post......as a bit of an amateur photographer and having had SLR and DSLR cameras, I'm wondering why nobody is talking about filters. Polarizing filters and Neutral density filters can have a huge positive affect on your color and lighting. I'm not great at explaining the technical details of why and what to use so google is your friend here but I know at least for GoPro there are options to use these filters.

With polarizing filters you can get a linear polarizer, which is good and simple you just screw it on and go. Or you can get a circular polarizer and you can actually make adjustments by spinning the filter in or out. Something to consider that might get you some of the results you're looking for without spending hours in post production.
 
Ok so full disclosure - I didn't read this whole thread, I skimmed it. BUT, it looks like everyone is talking only about what we do in post......as a bit of an amateur photographer and having had SLR and DSLR cameras, I'm wondering why nobody is talking about filters. Polarizing filters and Neutral density filters can have a huge positive affect on your color and lighting. I'm not great at explaining the technical details of why and what to use so google is your friend here but I know at least for GoPro there are options to use these filters.

With polarizing filters you can get a linear polarizer, which is good and simple you just screw it on and go. Or you can get a circular polarizer and you can actually make adjustments by spinning the filter in or out. Something to consider that might get you some of the results you're looking for without spending hours in post production.

Hey, that's a good tip - and one that's on my radar. GoPro sells ND filters for the Hero 8 and Hero 9, and MAYBE the Hero 7, but older GoPros and the 360 cameras don't have them as options AFAIK.

As someone, somewhere, said about cleaning up audio - it's best to do it at the source. Follows the old programmer adage: garbage in, garbage out.

-John
 

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