Near Miss - Who Is At 'fault'?

[dandoolittle]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1067873683234142

May take a second to load on this site but it should

 

[Lurch]

Screw fault, your safety is your own responsibility. Car, check for other people who beat you to the overtake. Bike, be prepared for people who don't look.

And how many people here have honestly properly checked before crossing that centre line every time they've gone for an overtake or to straighten a bend? Thought so

 

[TriumfAnt]

The driver obviously didn't check before the overtake. But he also wouldn't have been injured, or worse, if the car had sideswiped the bike. It's no good being in the right if you're impaled on a tree branch. A quick beep of the bike horn a little earlier would have been useful.

 

[SighBored]

If "fault", it's the driver's for not looking, giving signal doesn't give you instant right to overtake.

Rider should've been a little more defensive when dealing with drivers, either horn/indicate you're coming and prepare for someone to just lunge out anyway so have a buffer for braking/avoiding it.

 

[SalvageSV]

He was trying to cover a lot of ground with that pass. Both were at fault IMO. The car did have a signal on, even though it may have been turned on late. The bike didn't allow time to make his position known to the car since he was trying to pass three cars at once.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Hi,

No fault really, as nothing happened.
The car driver is completely out of the motorcycle riders control. So focusing on something that you have no control over is very close to useless.
Even if your conclusions are true; the driver did not look, is incompetent, etc. There is still nothing you can do about it and it does nothing to improve ones riding.

If it was me reviewing this video of my riding, I would focus on what I have control over, which is my attitude and my actions.

I would say I should have guessed that the middle car was about to overtake the lead car.
Especially if we had been riding along like this for a while.

A big clue from my experience is that the middle car is very close to the lead. They are 1) Not going fast enough for their liking, and 2) They are probably looking for space to overtake. That space is the same one the motorcyclist decided to use (it seems the motorcyclist felt the same about the speed and traffic ) and now we have two objects trying to occupy the same space .

If I saw a car tailgating like that and thought they might be getting ready to pass, I might honk as I approached, to discourage them before they start *, or expect them to cut over right there so I would simply leave room for them and we would both overtake holding hands (which is just about what happened!).

* I've noticed that if you can warn people and get them to stop before they start (for example a turn), they often will stay put or not move from their current position.

Once drivers (especially incompetent drivers) initiate a move, they rarely stop it or move back. Only if they see a collision is about to happen right in their face. Someone close to a rear panel is not enough -as seen in your video. You have to be heading for the drivers window or they probably will not stop. A loud horn does help though. Then they look for a second before proceeding, but that second buys you some space and time.

 

[Arctic Pride]

No harm no foul, but I +1'd Lurch...

The key is really what happens after, I see a lot of vloggers these days FULL of rage on the bike. These guy's are bound for the ground...

 

[Marbro_za]

If i were an insurance company, I would side with the biker, The Datsun go should have checked his mirrors before overtaking.


Biker also had some fault, I believe that you shouldnt overtake more than one car at a time. (dont think its a law though)

 

[Arctic Pride]

I'd wager he'd be SOL on insurance since he's clearly breaking speed limits, they don't like that so much and always look for reasons not to pay...

 

[RoadSprock]

Legal/insurance perspective: It's a motorcycle clearly at speed trying to overtake 3 cars in one maneuver and the motorcycle failed to be riding with sufficient due care and attention. If the overtake that was carried out with less speed it would have allowed the rider to have sufficient time to avoid any potential hazard/collision. Despite the driver failing to see the motorcyclist in their mirror(s) there is a clear indication being made before the rider even finishes the overtake on the silver estate.


But yeah, +1 to Lurch.. screw fault, your safety is in your own hands.

 

[lupin]

Fault is the fucker at the front for going too slow.

 

[DanielJ]

But DID that car driver not see the motorcyclist coming up overtaking the cars - plus not anticipating the motorcyclists speed (rapidness)?

I've seen car drivers do this, they get anxious, if THEY cant overtake that slower car, but see someone behind trying the overtake insteadl.... so at the last second pulls out (dangerous at best, attempted murder at worst)!

Note the car did have the Right indicator flashing, to indicate the intention to overtake (did the biker not notice that signal?).

 

[R-Rated]

I had a similar near miss.

There I was in the left lane of the interstate which is for faster vehicles. Heavy traffic. This pack of cars merges from the right and about a mile goes by when the sedan to my right comes over on me.

Well I started yelling at her, "HEY! HEY! HEY!" She heard and jerked back to the right.

Then I took a breath and twisted the throttle to GTFO.

I think the pickup that had been behind me for the last 8 miles must have thought they were about to witness a heck of a crash.

No road rage.

I guess fault would be if the rider forgot:

Always ride invisible and assume folks resent your freedom machine. Just don't do anything embarrassing like, pick your nose, you're not that invisible on a bike.

 

[Lurch]

I've seen car drivers do this, they get anxious, if THEY cant overtake that slower car, but see someone behind trying the overtake insteadl.... so at the last second pulls out (dangerous at best, attempted murder at worst)!

I pulled off a 3 car overtake yesterday, aimed to duck in behind the lead solo car which was following a caravan (camping trailer). Ramped up past the others, slowed to drop in just as that car started slowing to make the gap bigger.

Very kind, but I'd planned my overtake because of the blond right handed bend coming up so had to power on past him to drop in behind the trailer.

If someone is overtaking, don't "help" until they're past you please!!! Lol

 

[BehindBars]

Legal/insurance perspective: It's a motorcycle clearly at speed trying to overtake 3 cars in one maneuver and the motorcycle failed to be riding with sufficient due care and attention. If the overtake that was carried out with less speed it would have allowed the rider to have sufficient time to avoid any potential hazard/collision. Despite the driver failing to see the motorcyclist in their mirror(s) there is a clear indication being made before the rider even finishes the overtake on the silver estate.

Regardless of speed, if this caused a crash the driver would be at fault. Have you seen David's Story? IIRC he had been riding at ~100mph but due to the drivers lack of observation the driver was found 100% at fault.
Indication does not give right of way as many drivers seem to think, it shows intention to move but you must do so only when safe. Although I admit spotting that indication early may have given more time to react sooner

 

[DanielJ]

Regardless of speed, if this caused a crash the driver would be at fault. Have you seen David's Story? IIRC he had been riding at ~100mph but due to the drivers lack of observation the driver was found 100% at fault.
Indication does not give right of way as many drivers seem to think, it shows intention to move but you must do so only when safe. Although I admit spotting that indication early may have given more time to react sooner

Is that the guy who had a GoPro or similar recording his ride then crash? (plus he died almost instantly).
But lets be honest, he was riding through rural lanes, at well over the speed limit, overtaking cars.... that was an accident waiting to happen.

Yes, the young female in the car turned right across his lane, plus states she didn't see him / lack of observation on her part.
However HAD he been riding slower, he could have had a chance of swerving/braking, or slower speed = less collateral damage.

I know it is a sad case where the young man died, but analyzing the facts, he didn't give himself a chance.

But going back to the Video posted in this thread, the car did have the indicator on, to pull out (we see that in the video). If the biker had noticed this, it was a clue at least of that drivers intentions (whether the driver had seen him or not).

Riding motorcycles, we always look out for clues from other vehicles, be it the direction the driver is looking, the front wheels changing direction, or an indicator (blinker) flashing, etc.

 

[DanielJ]

I pulled off a 3 car overtake yesterday, aimed to duck in behind the lead solo car which was following a caravan (camping trailer). Ramped up past the others, slowed to drop in just as that car started slowing to make the gap bigger.

Very kind, but I'd planned my overtake because of the blond right handed bend coming up so had to power on past him to drop in behind the trailer.

If someone is overtaking, don't "help" until they're past you please!!! Lol

Yeah plus that "help" often comes at an unexpected moment (such as your encounter above)!
It catches you by surprise... infact catches you out, and throws your whole overtaking master plan into chaos! lol.

 

[Lurch]

But going back to the Video posted in this thread, the car did have the indicator on, to pull out (we see that in the video). If the biker had noticed this, it was a clue at least of that drivers intentions (whether the driver had seen him or not).

Riding motorcycles, we always look out for clues from other vehicles, be it the direction the driver is looking, the front wheels changing direction, or an indicator (blinker) flashing, etc.

As I've said before, it's all very well being right from the back of an ambulance. Forget right of way (not literally), it's everyone's RESPONSIBILITY to avoid an accident.

 

[MiGlyRides]

Fault is the fucker at the front for going too slow.

Yes, 100% yes people do no realise how underspeeding is MUCH MUCH more dangerous than overspeeding especially the effing police! No matter the situation if you're going too slow you are going to cause someone to do something that they wouldn't normally do, most likely recklessly. Weather it's quickly changing lanes to overtake or focus their attention on how best to overtake you vs concentrating on the important things like safe following distance, observing the road conditions, & KEEPING AN EYE OUT FOR BIKES!

 

[BehindBars]

Is that the guy who had a GoPro or similar recording his ride then crash? (plus he died almost instantly).
But lets be honest, he was riding through rural lanes, at well over the speed limit, overtaking cars.... that was an accident waiting to happen.

Yes, the young female in the car turned right across his lane, plus states she didn't see him / lack of observation on her part.
However HAD he been riding slower, he could have had a chance of swerving/braking, or slower speed = less collateral damage.

I know it is a sad case where the young man died, but analyzing the facts, he didn't give himself a chance.

But going back to the Video posted in this thread, the car did have the indicator on, to pull out (we see that in the video). If the biker had noticed this, it was a clue at least of that drivers intentions (whether the driver had seen him or not).

Riding motorcycles, we always look out for clues from other vehicles, be it the direction the driver is looking, the front wheels changing direction, or an indicator (blinker) flashing, etc.

Yep thats him.

I agree with what you're saying, partly. In the end it comes down to the fact that every other driver who witnessed the crash saw him coming, so his speed was irrelevant, he was clearly visible and the driver should've given way to him. It was the total lack of observation on the drivers part that killed him.

I think the most useful thing I've ever been taught about driving or riding is to treat every other road user as if they are total idiots, or as if they are trying to hit you. Every time I come up to a junction with a car waiting, I say to myself "watch this idiot pull out", so when they do pull out I'm ready for it.