Get that camera out of my face!

Baldbiker

L Plate Member
Mar 7, 2021
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Have you had it happen? Are you concerned about it?
Up until now I've been very reserved when it comes to filming other people while recording my vlogs. People generally dont like it if a stranger is holding a camera up to them without their permission, and asking permission makes them hyper aware of it so they will usually default to saying "no" if you ask.
Personally I'm a little introverted and it takes a lot of effort for me to approach people, and generate generic conversation.
Even in a place where it would have been a hit for me to walk around and talk with people, I was too shy to approach.
I need to overcome this! For the sake of the vlog!
H
20190621_175116.jpg
aving people in your videos adds a huge bonus to how interesting your content is for viewers, I truly believe that.
I've spent a lot of time watching famous vloggers and almost all of them have a lot of content filming and interacting with people they meet in their travels, and viewers love it. You don't see people objecting either, is it a special talent they have?

Benjamin Rich was asked about it in an interview once, he said you have to make the people you meet feel like they are a part of something, so instead of saying "mind if I film you?" you would say "Im making a video of this lovely neighborhood and I'd like you to let us know what you think of it". It's all psychology!
While it isn't illegal to film people in public, a lot of people think it is if they don't give permission, and you could end up in some serious trouble if you start waving around a camera on the wrong side of the tracks.
Presenting yourself to strangers with a camera in your hand could pose a risk of having your camera taken away, possibly even by force. Not much you can do if they decide to mug you for a $400 camera, that could buy a couple days worth of smack.
But, in contrast to that, these vloggers are strolling through rough neighborhoods with the camera out and not a care in the world, and seem to get away with it.
What's your take on it? What strategies do you employ to get interactive content, if at all? Or do you simply keep it focused on you?
 
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R-Rated

Remember to Have Fun! - Solar Bear 2020 Champion
Aug 4, 2016
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Middle Tennessee USA
www.R-RatedCustoms.com
I ride a
2014 Harley Davidson (FLHTK) Ultra Limited
Have you had it happen? Are you concerned about it?
Up until now I've been very reserved when it comes to filming other people while recording my vlogs. People generally dont like it if a stranger is holding a camera up to them without their permission, and asking permission makes them hyper aware of it so they will usually default to saying "no" if you ask.
Personally I'm a little introverted and it takes a lot of effort for me to approach people, and generate generic conversation.
Even in a place where it would have been a hit for me to walk around and talk with people, I was too shy to approach.
I need to overcome this! For the sake of the vlog!
HView attachment 6190aving people in your videos adds a huge bonus to how interesting your content is for viewers, I truly believe that.
I've spent a lot of time watching famous vloggers and almost all of them have a lot of content filming and interacting with people they meet in their travels, and viewers love it. You don't see people objecting either, is it a special talent they have?

Benjamin Rich was asked about it in an interview once, he said you have to make the people you meet feel like they are a part of something, so instead of saying "mind if I film you?" you would say "Im making a video of this lovely neighborhood and I'd like you to let us know what you think of it". It's all psychology!
While it isn't illegal to film people in public, a lot of people think it is if they don't give permission, and you could end up in some serious trouble if you start waving around a camera on the wrong side of the tracks.
Presenting yourself to strangers with a camera in your hand could pose a risk of having your camera taken away, possibly even by force. Not much you can do if they decide to mug you for a $400 camera, that could buy a couple days worth of smack.
But, in contrast to that, these vloggers are strolling through rough neighborhoods with the camera out and not a care in the world, and seem to get away with it.
What's your take on it? What strategies do you employ to get interactive content, if at all? Or do you simply keep it focused on you?
My advice is listen to your intuition. The human mind picks up on danger before we are conscious of it. There is plenty of research out there online to support it.

The problem is how you separate a normal level of social anxiety from the feeling your are being set up.

There are ways to build your confidence.
 
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HippoDrone

Admin
Jan 2, 2017
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West Sussex, UK
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2012 Moto Guzzi V7 Stone
When I went over to Santa Pod Raceway, I briefly interviewed a load or the racers in the pits, which seemed to be a popular part of the video. All I did was ask them if I could ask them a handful of quickfire questions on camera, and I prepped them for what the questions were so they were not a rabbit in the headlights, all seemed happy to do so, some did get nervous, but I tried to edit out where they fumbled or got tongue tied so they didn't look stupid. It was good fun to do, and took me a little out of my comfort zone, but I am glad I did it that way.
 

R-Rated

Remember to Have Fun! - Solar Bear 2020 Champion
Aug 4, 2016
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R-rated it feels like you left out the end of the story here!
It is a long but entertaining backstory that I don't mind sharing on here. The story has real world examples dealing with what we perceive as somene on the wrong side of the tracks and how we interact with them. I am leaving out the sad parts and there are some sad parts.

First, is perception. I used to work in a career where we had to go on the wrong side of the tracks on a regular basis. Some of my coworkers got stand off-ish with an "us vs them" mentality. Others accepted the rough folks were not any different than us. Being a child that grew up in the rougher parts of places, I fall into the latter camp. I always felt like the folks that we often interacted with be it arrest or just watching were just trying to live. It was like a business for them and my co-workers.

Second is how to react or rather the anticipation of how to react. One of my real close friends is the most likeable funny guy in the world. I mean he can charm anyone with his wit and fit in no matter the situation. This guy carried a knife under the velcro of his ballistic vest in case he got jumped and was outnumbered which given backup might be 25 minutes away or longer and we often worked alone - is a genuine concern. There is a stretch of road in the area we worked named after an officer that was ambushed in the middle of the night while going to what turned out to be a fake call. I will spare the details of how my friend planned on using the knife if he felt like he would lose his life in hand to hand.

I never told him if it came down to it, his arms would be too busy to get to the knife. I myself had little tricks too. They just were not all as violent as my pal's.
But we still treated the people as just people even though we might have arrested them or someone they know.

Flash forward to me no longer being in law enforcement. I am on a long road trip with a three other riders. We are stopped at a desert truck stop when in rolls some patched members of the local M/C. It was hot out and they were needing fuel, bathrooms, and hydration just like the group of "Wild Hogs" looking fellows I was rolling with.

One of the guys I was riding with became pale and jittery. Soon he kept muttering to us we needed to go because these other riders were trouble. I mean if you could have seen the guy I was riding with you have thought he saw the most scary things in the world. Funny part is the nervous guy had been an A-number 1 arse to every wait staff and hotel employee along the ride so far. He even bragged about berating his wife over the phone about some mistake she made while he was on the road. He was a real "big man" (sarcasm).

Me, I just saw the patches up bikers as some riders that made different choices in life or had a lack of choices than I did. They had a "business" going and I knew as long as I did not interrupt their work beyond a nod to them then they were not going to want to draw undue attention to their line of work.

Not long after this incident, I parted ways with the other riders I was with and went the rest of the trip alone. The one guy just was too much especially after he raged a fit towards a worker the next time we stopped all over ketchup, ice, or some other insignificant bullsh!t.

While going the rest of the trip alone, I met more people. There was the lady at the desk of the hotel where I stopped in a storm that shared with me her ex used to ride so she wanted me to have a room looking over my bike. There was a latino father at a rest stop that had questions about my bike. There was a young guy in a Honda Civic from the mid 90s that challenged me to a street drag race. He had this twinkle in his eyes. Why was he challenging me on a loaded bagger? I politely declined and he ran it anyway. He had a turbo under the hood of the little ratty car. He would have smoked me. Man did he laugh when I pulled back up beside him at the next light! I knew there was something about the twinkle in his eyes. There many were other interesting people too.

Point is this. If you really want to build up the ability to tell the difference between social anxiety and the intuition kicking in that some serious stuff is about to go down, just go and hang out in the local rough area. Maybe see if there is some social function you can visit like a community festival or outreach program you can volunteer with. The situation will be non-threatening and you should feel mostly comfortable just being there not filming. You will get to meet some of the same type of folks that might have to commit crime like take some rider's camera just to live if you met other circumstances. That experience will give you the baseline of "normal" behavior of people that have been and still go through some rough stuff.

Then later when you decide to film folks on the rough side of the tracks you will pick up consciously anything outside of the "normal" behavior such as body language or tone voice. It will register in your mind so you can get out of the situation quickly without hesitation.

Remember that regular law abiding folks are just as curious about a rider as we can be about them and rough folks are just like most everyone else as long as you understand their social norms.

By the way, I never showed the interactions that happened on camera of the epic motorcycle trip because for me, I was in the moment when they were happening. When I watch the archive footage, it just is not the same so I figure someone outside of the moment would not find it interesting at all. Heck, I even edited out the other three riders from the trip in what I did put online but here is a pic of us the morning before our meeting with the biker gang and the straw that broke this camel's back.

Guess which of us has their legal and licensed weapon on their bike (wink).

SmartSelect_20220115-053828_Instagram.jpg
 

Baldbiker

L Plate Member
Mar 7, 2021
215
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I ride a
Africa Twin DCT
Good stories my man, although it's not really the direction I was going. As far as using the camera when meeting people I mean with anyone, and I guess my use of the term "wrong side of the tracks" really mean't wrong kind of people, more than what neighborhood they were in.
I watch a lot of those travelling youtubers and wandering around sketchy neighborhoods seems to be a fad these days so a lot of them are doing it. "I heard this was the most dangerous neighborhood in the country, so I'm going to go and see if it is". Is a very common topic in the past year or two.
But what I really mean by "wrong side of the tracks" is someone with a negative reaction to your camera. It's the last thing I want to provoke. I'm not there to upset anyone, I just want to make an interesting vlog, and although someone screaming at me to put away the camera would make for a lot of views, it's not the direction I want to go either.
So I think it's a lot to do with your approach, and as a former law enforcement officer I'm sure you have quite a bit of training and experience when it comes to that. Even if it's not illegal, if people tell me they don't want to be filmed, I will immediately put it away, rather than challenge it and make a fuss. Others might do the opposite.
 
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Baldbiker

L Plate Member
Mar 7, 2021
215
277
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55
I ride a
Africa Twin DCT
When I went over to Santa Pod Raceway, I briefly interviewed a load or the racers in the pits, which seemed to be a popular part of the video. All I did was ask them if I could ask them a handful of quickfire questions on camera, and I prepped them for what the questions were so they were not a rabbit in the headlights, all seemed happy to do so, some did get nervous, but I tried to edit out where they fumbled or got tongue tied so they didn't look stupid. It was good fun to do, and took me a little out of my comfort zone, but I am glad I did it that way.
That's a great way to get pre-approval. I guess the downside is the majority of time people will say no if you ask them ahead of time. I did a walk around of a market in Jamaica and asked vendors if I could film them, everyone I asked said no, but if I just walked around with the camera held casually at my hip nobody said anything. That video turned out to be quite popular, but was not part of my motovlog channel as there was no bike content.
 

R-Rated

Remember to Have Fun! - Solar Bear 2020 Champion
Aug 4, 2016
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Middle Tennessee USA
www.R-RatedCustoms.com
I ride a
2014 Harley Davidson (FLHTK) Ultra Limited
That's a great way to get pre-approval. I guess the downside is the majority of time people will say no if you ask them ahead of time. I did a walk around of a market in Jamaica and asked vendors if I could film them, everyone I asked said no, but if I just walked around with the camera held casually at my hip nobody said anything. That video turned out to be quite popular, but was not part of my motovlog channel as there was no bike content.
What about using a chest mount for a GoPro with no LEDS on? Just wear under a jacket so it just peeks out?
 

HippoDrone

Admin
Jan 2, 2017
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West Sussex, UK
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2012 Moto Guzzi V7 Stone
That's a great way to get pre-approval. I guess the downside is the majority of time people will say no if you ask them ahead of time. I did a walk around of a market in Jamaica and asked vendors if I could film them, everyone I asked said no, but if I just walked around with the camera held casually at my hip nobody said anything. That video turned out to be quite popular, but was not part of my motovlog channel as there was no bike content.
I didn't have anyone tell me no, I had a few who were nervous and asked me to re record, which I did, but they were all racing, so it was PR for them and possibly any sponsors they had. In the real world, yes, you'll get a few who say no, but... the great thing about video is that you can get away with only showing those who were up for things. Like Instagram, YouTube is full of lies and subterfuge, we make our mundane lives look exciting by posting good exciting things, we delete and hide the negatives or pointless bits, so our videos can hopefully look like a flowing moment of joy.... when in reality, there were 7 punch ups and an arrest followed by a streaker running across the road! :D
 

R-Rated

Remember to Have Fun! - Solar Bear 2020 Champion
Aug 4, 2016
3,276
3,264
113
Middle Tennessee USA
www.R-RatedCustoms.com
I ride a
2014 Harley Davidson (FLHTK) Ultra Limited
we delete and hide the negatives or pointless bits, so our videos can hopefully look like a flowing moment of joy.... when in reality, there were 7 punch ups and an arrest followed by a streaker running across the road! :D
And how many of those were inspired or participated in by you?
spongebob-meme-looking-around.gif
 
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Theodor

Don't wannabe
Nov 16, 2017
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While it isn't illegal to film people in public...
I'd be careful with that and make sure what the law says exactly, because it varies a lot from country to country. For example, it can be legal to film, but not share publicly. Over here, it is the latter. Even the our of focus people in the background need to give consent, for the footage to be shared publicly, if they can be identified. And they can be identified by more than their face and voice. Say you have a distinctive limp, unique clothing, odd haircut, etc.If your friend, child or mom could recognize you, you can be identified. Only exception is a mass event, where people need to expect to be filmed.
Thus I have generally avoided filming people elsewhere than at public events. But the couple of times I have asked questions from people at public events, while filming, it was all friendly and nice.
 

scooterwuf

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Jan 6, 2017
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Kymco Downtown 300i
It really depends on where you are - country, state and event, and what the situation is. In the US if you are in a public space then for those there they have no expectation of privacy. However, when I'm in that kind of situation I try to keep my distance from people and do not approach them directly.

If you are in a large event, that may be considered on public space, but you are unsure if your presence will be welcomed, I would suggest one of two things.

Wear something to give you identity. I have T-shirts made for my name/channel - Scooterwolf. By wearing something - shirt, hoodie, hat, etc. ... people will think you are operating under some kind of official capacity. If so, they themselves may approach you and ask what you're doing. At that point you can let them know, and even ask them for permission to film them. If they are unsure, give them a card or way for them to check out your channel. If that earns their trust, then make it clear how they will be seen in the footage/final video and even allow them to view the finished video first before it's posted publicly on YT.

The second approach to a public function is to contact the event organizer(s) and see if you can get press credentials. If so they may even give you a press badge that you can wear. The press badge can serve the same as a shirt or hat with your logo on it. The badge can also give you more legitimacy as well, and may allow others to trust you, or regard you with a level of excitement.

If you do manage to interview someone and are afraid that they may come after you later after the video is posted you can offer them a release form.

Release forms can be simple or complicated. The good news is you can even write them yourself (though how it stands up in court is another thing). I would keep it simple with the goal that the person signing give you permission to use their likeness and official interview content for your channel.

These links may help -



I've attached a sample release forms in a PDF format. Feel free to re-write the form, by adding, deleting or changing sections and the wording to your liking.

- Wolf
 

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R-Rated

Remember to Have Fun! - Solar Bear 2020 Champion
Aug 4, 2016
3,276
3,264
113
Middle Tennessee USA
www.R-RatedCustoms.com
I ride a
2014 Harley Davidson (FLHTK) Ultra Limited
It really depends on where you are - country, state and event, and what the situation is. In the US if you are in a public space then for those there they have no expectation of privacy. However, when I'm in that kind of situation I try to keep my distance from people and do not approach them directly.

If you are in a large event, that may be considered on public space, but you are unsure if your presence will be welcomed, I would suggest one of two things.

Wear something to give you identity. I have T-shirts made for my name/channel - Scooterwolf. By wearing something - shirt, hoodie, hat, etc. ... people will think you are operating under some kind of official capacity. If so, they themselves may approach you and ask what you're doing. At that point you can let them know, and even ask them for permission to film them. If they are unsure, give them a card or way for them to check out your channel. If that earns their trust, then make it clear how they will be seen in the footage/final video and even allow them to view the finished video first before it's posted publicly on YT.

The second approach to a public function is to contact the event organizer(s) and see if you can get press credentials. If so they may even give you a press badge that you can wear. The press badge can serve the same as a shirt or hat with your logo on it. The badge can also give you more legitimacy as well, and may allow others to trust you, or regard you with a level of excitement.

If you do manage to interview someone and are afraid that they may come after you later after the video is posted you can offer them a release form.

Release forms can be simple or complicated. The good news is you can even write them yourself (though how it stands up in court is another thing). I would keep it simple with the goal that the person signing give you permission to use their likeness and official interview content for your channel.


I've attached a sample release forms in a PDF format. Feel free to re-write the form, by adding, deleting or changing sections and the wording to your liking.

- Wolf
Great information!
 

Baldbiker

L Plate Member
Mar 7, 2021
215
277
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55
I ride a
Africa Twin DCT
I can't see the big vloggers doing this, all the legal formalities with release forms, getting press badges and such, I can see them not including someone in the video if they ask. I have seen episodes in certain middle eastern countries where they can get quite militant about being filmed. Certain cultures will rile right up and for that you certainly have to be careful.
 
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scooterwuf

L Plate Member
Jan 6, 2017
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I approach my videos like I’m making a short film. If I know I‘ll be filming or interviewing people I may need release forms. It wouldn’t surprise me if most motovloggers don’t do this, but it also depends on the location and whether you‘re in the public, or on private property.

I produce a half-hour public access TV show in Philadelphia we’re I showcase short films. Each one requires that I get the filmmaker‘s permission. It’s second nature for me, and just part of the production process. Having a press badge really opens doors and takes away the pressure to get a shot or footage under the radar. However, there are also times we’re despite having credentials you still get a hard ‘No’. Sometimes you just have take off the helmet put on the Producer’s hat.

- Wolf
 
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